Christianity Oasis Forum

[deetu]

While looking for something else, I came across this and it has me a little confused.

Hebrews 6:4-6
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

What I am reading is: It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance.

But we know that if we fall, we ask for forgiveness and move forward, knowing God still loves us. I also know that this letter was a warning to the church at that time but it is still for us to use today.
If someone who fell away should read that, would they think that they can never come back under Christ again?

I looked up other translations and they say the same. (NLT is even harsher)
The only thing I can think of is if a person purposely denounces Jesus after already experiencing Holy Spirit and decides to live his life in evil.... but again, Jesus would take that person back again.

[mlg]

Sis this verse describes the unpardonable sin of blasphemy. What this is saying is that if a person completely turns away from God after knowing Him, never to return to Him then when this soul goes to the judgement, God will not know them. See we can fall, but as long as we get up, then we are forgiven. But if someone falls and never gets up....then they can't be renewed in Christ anymore because they have left Him behind forever.

luv ya sis

[deetu]

I asked my sister about this too and she was saying someone who knows God but decides not to follow Him. My nine year old niece said, "Like Dad?" And that made me understand. My sister is divorced from him but he will ask her for prayers when he needs them but does not follow God in any other way.
*Shaking my head.... how can anyone do that after knowing Him?
My life has changed so much, I can never picture not leaving myself open for God to use and going back to my old selfish, lost ways.

[comfy]

"And the Lord said, 'Simon, Simon!
Indeed, Satan has asked for you,
that he may sift you as wheat.
But I have prayed for you,
that your faith should not fail;
and when you have returned to Me,
strengthen your brethren.'"
. . . . . . . . . . .(Luke 22:31-32)

So . . . even before Peter denied Jesus three times, Jesus already had prayed for Peter to *return* to Jesus. So, Peter fell > I suppose we could rightly say he lost his faith. But Jesus had Peter covered with *His* prayer for Peter. We also, when Jesus knows we will fail, have Your prayer for us . . . according to *Your* faith.

And You told Peter that, after he returned to You, to strengthen his brothers and sisters. After all, Your prayer got him strengthened to come back to You, so now he can minister this strength to others. This is what happens when we fail. Jesus prays His strength to us so we then can do better, and also minister strengthening to others, including helping each other with whatever we have learned from our "mistakes".

And then we can know better to have compassion on others, after we have so failed, even inexcusably, and You have had such mercy on us > now it is our turn >

"He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray,
since he himself is also subject to weaknesss."
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .(Hebrews 5:2)

[momof3]

hey deetu

here's an awesome study on this topic. There are more, but this is the one that came to mind when reading this post.


http://www.christianityoasis.com/Keywor ... Spirit.htm

God bless you, sis. Love you

in Jesus,
momo

[changedforever]

Greetings Deetu

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, (full of light) and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, And fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing the
crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame."

That is indeed a scripture that many become grievious over, especially those who have fallen away who from reading this scripture believe there is no hope of return to the Lord or forgiveness in Him. But we know that this is not so if we consider the story of the Prodical Son, (Luke 15:11-32) for when he returned home he was welcomed with open arms by his father. Here also we see true repentance on behalf of the son.
There is a writing in my bible (The Companion Bible) it reads for the word put, = putting (as they do) Him to an open shame, The warning is that if, after accepting Jesus the Nazarene as Messiah and Lord, they go back to Judaism, they cut themselves off (see Gal 5:4 "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified in the law; ye are fallen from grace.") as there is no other Messiah to be looked for, and by rejecting Him they put Him to open shame. Though the interpretation is for apostates (somebody who is fallen from the faith) who go back to Judaism, the application remains a solemn warning to all who profess to "believe".
One thing I see from the story of the "two sons" (prodical son), is that the son who left and asked for his inheritance and squandered it began to come to his senses (vs 17,"and when he came to himself") realizing that in his father house that even the hired servants had enough food where as he was starving. Before perhaps the son did not fully realize or see the true benefit of being a son in his fathers house and how he would never want for anything. As do we, not often realizing all that the Father has for us who are His. In some cases Christians tend to fall away because they have gone through something that has brought about such discouragement, despair and loss in their lives and in hurt and anger they give up, unable to continue in their walk, cause they don't know how to walk, they are broken, wounded soldiers in need of healing.
In regards to the scripture Heb 6:4-6 I tend to believe that these may be those who have clearly made a choice to find another Messiah or "way" even after "hearing the truth" "tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit". Rather than someone who after suffered something fell, became distraught and could no longer walk in the Lord. Or perhaps even those who may not have seen clearly the things of the Lord and how to walk in Him and who tend to wander away into things that are not right, not having been brought up in Christ. (Discipled).
When a heart is truly repentant we know as believers from the Word of God that God forgives us. Eph 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you. God is forever faithful to forgive us, Amen!

In regards to Mat 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
Mat 12:32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. ive us, Amen!
Blasphemy G988 - says vilification (especially against God) evil speaking, railing.
We can see that in this chapter Jesus was healing a man possessed with a devil vs. 22, the Pharisees began to say that Jesus was casting out the devil by- vs 24 "Beelzebub the prince of the devils." (rather than that of the Holy Spirit) therefore speaking to the Pharisees regarding Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. as this is speaking against God, who He is. How can we call that which is clearly done by the Holy Spirit which was within Jesus (God in the flesh) that of the devil, we then speak against God Himself.
Amen!

[comfy]

That is indeed a scripture that many become grievious over, especially those who have fallen away who from reading this scripture believe there is no hope of return to the Lord or forgiveness in Him.

I think of how Judas "repented" after he had betrayed Jesus. But then he hung himself, instead of receiving forgiveness. And we have >

"For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation, not to be regretted;
but the sorrow of the world produces death." (2 Corinthians 7:10)

So . . . God does not want us to read the fallen away thing and then be sorry in a way that has us giving up.
But . . . even if I do lose hope - - - I can then see how I am wrong and trust God to make me better
And I would offer, that God gave us that scripture . . . *not* so we would see we have fallen and then give up, but so we would *not* give up, but offer ourselves for His forgiveness and correction. But Satan would have us avoiding this correction. Whose motive are we going to honor, then? There is how Satan would have us taking this scripture, and how God who desires mercy wants us to take it >

"'Say to them:"As I live," says the LORD GOD, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from you evil ways! For why should you die, O house of Israel?"'" (Ezekiel 33:11)

I consider how Jesus told the Ephesians that they had "left" their "first love" (Revelation 2:1-7). I see this means He is saying they had left Jesus who is their Groom. But then He doesn't say there is not hope for them. He says,

"'Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Remember therefore from where you have fallen: repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place---unless you repent.'" (Revelation 2:4-5)

But > those Ephesians labored for His name and did not become weary, and they could spot fakes and would not put up with those who were evil. Yet, they left their first love. I can see that it is possible to be laboring for the name of Jesus . . . run run running around "serving" Him, but we are fallen and do not even know it . . . like Martha who was so fussing about "much serving" (Luke 10:32-48) instead of paying attention to Jesus. So . . . we can be fallen and not even know it, because we are so busy with what we call "ministering".

But Jesus says if we obey Him, "you will find rest for your souls." (in Matthew 11:29) While we are being pleasing to God, we have this so beautifully pure soul-soothing rest in His love (Romans 5:5, 1 Peter 3:4). So . . . we have this instant feedback, about if we are pleasing God or not (o: While we are being pleasing to You, LORD, we are also enjoying how You are so beautifully wonderful . . . so more pleasing to us, I can see, than we can be to You > so we *are* reaping so much more than we are sowing

But this means how You make us pleasing to You. How You change us to be submissive to You the way You know You want. So, there are times when I have gotten in a mess after sinning > my own sinning made me get into weakness so then I could suffer and feel like I could have gotten away from You. But I decided to have *You* be the Judge to decide what to do with me, instead of me jumping to conclusions while I was negative and would have made a bad judgment. And You, LORD, have had mercy on me. Thanks so much for this . . .
and having mercy on others, also

[Lionhearted]

hey deeters

i think, for some, its hard to accept that God will turn some away (depart from me, i never knew you).

this phrase in english (to fall away) is a single word in the greek (parapiptō). i find the english translation somewhat weak ... to "fall" away, sounds like an "accident", or something that you've "slipped" in doing ... like loosing your balance and "falling" ... it has a feeling of not being responsible for what happened(s) TO you.

the greek is word is much clearer: parapiptō.

para: -- NEAR; FROM BESIDE; AT (or in) THE VICINITY OF; TO THE PROXIMITY WITH.

piptō petō: -- akin to: -- petomai petaomai ptaomai: -- a primary verb; to fly: - fly (-ing).

with this verb form, a person is not the object (receiving the action) ... the person is clearly choosing to literally ... fly away from the nearness of the Lord; i see it as a choice they make.

yes it is sad, and even hard to comprehend that someone would actually choose to not want to be with God. but we've got to remember that He knows who will choose Him (eternally) and who won't; and understand that He wouldn't want us to angst over what He's already established ... even when we don't understand it.