Christianity Oasis Forum

[dema]

I am the member who asked Kimby to start counting her blessings. I am the one who asked others if it was just me or did the endless complaining weigh them down too. And I am the one who told her that people here often have more serious problems than the fact that she HAD to buy a new car or that she wasn't going to get into her remodeled house debt free.

I'm the one who told her that when many here, during the recession, were homeless or nearly so, carless or nearly so or otherwise in deep hurt and pain, that continually complaining without ever accepting comfort or changing the tone of her complaints weighed heavily on me.

I also told her that the people here want to help. That she complained about losing her church service, but that the last we'd heard she couldn't find a church home - why do we never get to hear her rejoice? Why are we only the dumping ground, only her cesspool and never her place of rejoicing. And why does she not try to help the others here that have so many problems with finding a job, staying housed, having the next meal or recovering from deep and lasting hurt.

So, you don't need to wonder who. It was me.

[kimby]

After openly sharing that comments I received in private were hurtful, I was forwarded those same messages again. That and this latest post actually did my heart good. It showed me that the work God did in me was lasting, was real! While slaps in the face will always hurt, at least momentarily, this one hasn't ruled my day. It hasn't pulled me down.

I realize that it is possible to take someone's words and twist them to make them look like something they are not. I realize that it is possible to take someone's heart and emotions and mock and belittle them. I forgive this all.

If you are going through a hard time, please know it is okay to voice it. You don't have to hide your hurt. There is a huge difference between having a critical, complaining spirit and being overwhelmed, stressed and fearful. Neither are God's best or His desire for us, but they are not the same. While it is true that other's may have situations that seem more severe than what another is going through, that does not change anyone's experience. One person's broken leg does not ease the pain of another's sprained ankle. Only ourselves and God (and sometimes just God) understand why we respond and react the way we do to certain things. What may hardly faze one person can cause another to nearly go under. It doesn't say anything about either person, beyond the fact that they have had different experiences in their lives, are currently experiencing different things, and have different support systems surrounding them.

Emotions, no matter what they are, are not a cesspool. Sharing your emotions does not mean that you are dumping them. We are called to bear one another's burdens. We do that in many ways. In some instances we are able to offer a word of encouragement or blessing. At other times we meet practical needs that may arise in the life of another. And some times we are simply there. We pray. We stand with them. We are not all called to the same role at the same time. We go through seasons in our lives. In some seasons we have strength in abundance to share. In other seasons we have just enough strength for ourselves. And there are the times where our strength is not enough for even us. No matter a person's season, they should not be attacked. It is also wise to realize that simply because we do not see a person do something it shouldn't be simply assumed they don't. I have to remind my third graders of this idea often....just because you didn't see so-and-so get in trouble doesn't mean there weren't consequences. Not everything is on display, nor should it be.

It is so very important to try and help people to return to a place of joy. It is in joy that we have the strength to face challenges. Joy enlarges our capacity to deal...with life. The pastor I meet with does this in such a beautiful way. She never minimizes a person's pain, but she uses what she knows about that person to remind them of the wonderful things that bring them joy, to remind them of the times God has met with them in intimate ways. One cannot be bullied or shamed into joy; we need to draw each other gently to it. And that joy can truly only come when we have been allowed the space to release the negative.

I wish I could have come to this understanding of God's character in another way, but I am so glad that I have arrived here! What God says always matters more than what a person says. Always!

It was never my desire that this play out here in my journal. It was never my desire that names be broadcast, because the message goes beyond one person. No one has the right to judge your heart, no one has the right to belittle your feelings or your experiences. Not here, not anywhere. I want so much for people to know this, to be saved the pain I experienced. I wholeheartedly apologize if any of this has made anyone uncomfortable. The appearance of tension can sometimes be very upsetting. Please know that I hold nothing against anyone here and, at least as far as I am concerned, there is no tension. If anyone wonders why I have struggled with some of the things that have come along in the last few years that I have shared here, please feel free to ask. If you wonder why I don't currently post on forums as much as others, please ask. I have no personal need to publicly defend the specific accusations leveled against me, but if for some reason it has left someone wondering, I am more than happy to visit about it.

I appreciate those who have take the time to read my journal through the years. Like most people's it is very much a roller coaster. I have a feeling this latest bit of growth will cause some uphill movement, and I am excited about that. Freedom is truly a lovely thing.

[kimby]

I love friendships where, despite not seeing each other regularly, things always pick up where they left off. This is the case with a former co-worker. She and I were first year teachers together with classrooms right next to each other. We were both single so we spent a lot of time together outside of school.

After a few years she moved to another school in our district, married and had her first baby. We obviously didn't get to see as much of each other, but the times we did get together were great. Eventually she moved back to our school, and we saw much more of each other. She had baby boys 3 and 4 (twins) during my last year at the school. She stayed in touch with me while I lived overseas and always got together with me when I had to return to renew my visa. She made sure to come see me when I was holding vigil at my father's bedside in ICU. That is just the kind of person she is.

It had been awhile since I saw her, but we got to hang out last night with a large group of friends. We had scheduled a painting party at a local place. It was fun to see how everyone's picture turned out different despite the fact that we were all painting the "same" thing. It was a great time of laughter. My friend who is visiting from overseas and I went out to her place today to have lunch and swim with her and the four boys (who are growing up way too fast!). We had a lovely time of conversation and banter...and planning another get together for next week.

After that it may be another long stretch before we can get together again, but I love that that doesn't affect our friendship in the slightest.

It was also good to see my visiting friend enjoying herself today. I was becoming concerned because I was afraid that she might be bored because she was spending a great deal of time reading or sleeping. She assured me that it was simply a case of unwinding from the end of the school term. As much as I believed her, I still worried that as a host I was failing. I am working to set aside that worry and just enjoy her time here.

We spent a few hours working at the school earlier this week. It was the first time that I went that I didn't cry or actively fight off tears. I spent about $200 (ACK!) this week on new supplies to help get the year started off right. I think I am finally starting to settle into this a bit.

[dema]

Thank you for allowing us to rejoice with you. So glad to hear good things are happening and that the others are getting better.

[kimby]

Since I returned from abroad I have spent a lot of time taking care of my parents. It isn't really that my mother needs a ton of help with my father, it is simply that she feels better when someone else is around. She hates to drive so is thrilled that I come and drive them around on the weekends and during the summer. Between this and work I rarely have a day that is completely mine. If I do it is typically because it is a snow day or I have worked hard to arrange it so that her feelings aren't hurt.

As I have said I have a friend visiting so I have only been to see her once in the last two weeks. I call and check on her, and she knows she can call me if she needs something (though she won't and then complains about it later..sigh). Today I was up early because a student's family invited me to church with them. I had planned to run to my mother's house afterwards and drop a few things off that I had for her, take her the Sunday paper, and simply see her.

I called and told her what I was doing and asked if she wanted me to bring her anything else. After answering the phone with a fairly snarky, "WHAT!?" things didn't improve in the conversation. She maintained the snippy, indifferent tone and told me I didn't have to do that and that she didn't want anything. So, as I do when she gets all wishy-washy, I flat out asked, "So you don't want me to come?" She quickly said, "No." As soon as I had mumbled "ok," she abruptly ended the call. There was no thank you or comment that it was thoughtful of me to think of her. Nothing. All I got for my efforts was hatefulness.

I don't understand why she acts like this (today was far from the first time). I have come to the place that this doesn't destroy me for days until she is acting kind again, but it still hurts. I am sacrificing much of my life for her and my father, but get moodiness in return. I don't know if she was just in a bad mood or is upset because I haven't been around as much, but either way, it was no excuse to talk to me like that.

I know that there are people that think I should post nothing negative and I worry that this will probably be viewed as negative, but it is real. It is what really happened to me this morning, and I shouldn't be expected to hide it or pretend it didn't happen. With that being said, I am publicly asking that I not be attacked or belittled for sharing what was my reality at the point of writing. I was honestly a bit scared to share this and that shouldn't be the case, so I am shoving that fear right back and posting anyway.

[dema]

I liked your comment about putting deposits in the checking account before you take withdrawals. If you would think of that analogy when you write on here, all would be good. You obviously know a lot about dealing with people - please remember we are people here too. Make those deposits.

From talking to you in the past, your mother has issues. Please realize that you, as the child, are not responsible for the issues that your mother apparently had way before you even came along. Do what you can, and if you need to ask someone else for a sense of perspective if you aren't being a good daughter then ask. It sounds to me like you are and you need to prioritize right now. It also sounds like you are prioritizing with your parents but your mother wishes to have more of you and so she is being nasty about it in order to control you.

Well, mothers do that. Many mothers, maybe all mothers a little bit. Your mother seems to be a rather extreme case.

Mother guilt is hard. But sometimes you just have to prioritize and do the best you can. And it sounds like you are doing that well. You really aren't alone in this, though your mother may cast more guilt at you than most, you certainly are not at all alone in how you feel.

[kimby]

I returned last night from a 3000 mile road trip. Lots of miles. Lots of sites. Lots of animals.

I had planned this trip with two friends. We all had input and picked the things we most wanted to see. Some things were higher on one person's list than the other's, but we all had our top three things on the route. Things went pretty well....aside from things constantly taking longer than we had planned.

We were gone for almost a week, and I spent the majority of the trip fearing that the other two wished they hadn't come. Both found the long hours in the car very hard, and one regularly commented on it. The other would then agree. I am not sure what I was supposed to do about it. They knew the distance between things before we left. I get it, it was a long time in the car, but joking about it would have been so much better. I spent so much time feeling horrible. One missed her husband. I get it, as much as single person can, but it seems like a married person should be able to enjoy times that they are with friends and not with their spouse. This friend also has a very strong way of stating what she thinks, feels or believes. It can come across as judgmental. I think part of that was in how I took it, but also in how it was said. All in all, when we pulled into the driveway yesterday, I just felt bad that we had done this, because it didn't seem like either of them enjoyed it at all. The comments about liking things we did were far less than the comments about the car ride or the heat or other things beyond my control.

Today, the person on the trip that is staying with me said, "I hope you don't think we didn't have fun on the trip. We did." I was honest and told her that I thought she had hated it. I don't know quite what to think now. I am sure some of my feelings arise from how I took the comments. I am sure part of it came from feeling "ganged up" on, but I wonder if it was all me or if some of the comments were out of line or unnecessary.

We were having dinner with friends of two of us at one of the cities we stayed in during the trip. They had made potatoes to go with dinner. I am not a big potato fan, nor is one of the other girls. Doing so much mission work, I have learned to eat what is set before me unless there is an allergy issue. I try to never comment on where the food falls in my like/dislike ranking. The other girl pipes right up and says something about how they aren't her favorite and how I hated them. I was humiliated. When someone has gone out of their way, I feel you shouldn't say anything that could potentially make them feel bad. And for the record, the potatoes were good and I took seconds on them. There were things like this off and on during the trip. Again, I don't know if the problem is in how I took it, how it was said, or both.

I enjoyed all the sites I saw. I enjoyed the drive for the most part even. I enjoyed seeing all the animals along the way. I enjoyed the time with people we visited and I enjoyed the time with my two trip mates when we were actually talking (the one who complained the most slept a lot of the way and when we stopped somewhere that had wifi she disconnected from us and was on her device...she even did it when one of our hosts took us out for dinner!). Was it perfect? No. But then again, no week is perfect whether you stay home or travel miles and miles. I do feel the trip had more potential for fun than it was allowed to give us.

I am not sure exactly what I am trying to say here....the trip was great, but it had some definite drawbacks that left me frustrated and annoyed. I am not trying to be judgmental, just sharing some things that frustrated me because I was raised or learned not to do them because I felt they were inconsiderate or rude. (I think my attempt to explain just made me sound more judgmental...sigh)

A fun side note...I somehow managed to dodge using an air bed the entire trip! (I don't mind them, but since I have been on one at my own house since my friend arrived, it was a nice break!)

[dema]

Sounds like you drove 500 miles a day. I can't imagine doing that kind of driving or riding in a car. Did you plan it together? Did you all realize that would likely be 9 hours a day in the car on average? That is exhausting and exhausted people don't tend to use the best judgment. Wow.

[dema]

I looked up road trips to see what the experts say. 500 miles a day is within the maximum guideline. I don't know if you went places where the trip itself was beautiful or not. And I don't know how old your friends are. The common thread I found in my research was to compare expectations prior to leaving. So, if you all feel like being in a car 9 hours every day of your vacation or some such combination, then go for it. They do recommend not being in the car over that amount, so if the days weren't even then perhaps one day was a bit too exhausting.

When I was young - in my twenties - we would drive over 1000 miles in two days to visit family, stay there two days and then drive two days back. My last trip like that was when I was just over 40. I fly now. My parents made starting from the trip the other direction in their late 70's. They stayed here several days and insisted that they didn't want to see anybody but me the first day after they arrived and they slept most of that day.

I think that your trip would have been grueling even if it had had two-three days in the middle to wander around and site see and sleep late in your own private space. From what I gather you were sleeping wherever people could house you, so on top of everything else there was the stress of meeting new people and never being alone. At 25 I could have handled a few days without being alone. At my current age, having no alone time and no just down time after 2-3 days of travel would do me in. I might have feigned illness in order to get 12 hours alone in a hotel room.

Weren't you exhausted yourself?

The real question here is whether your two friends were expecting all of this. Did they know that you have a grueling trip planned and had they agreed to it? Were they part of the planning? If they knew what they were getting into and helped set it up, then they probably know now that they don't want to do that again.

If they were surprised by all this, then maybe you should apologize for putting them through such an arduous trip. If you do apologize, they will probably say nice things that will make you feel better.

Did you accomplish your goals? I hope so. I assume you had a list of goals or you wouldn't have crammed so much in.

At any rate, it is over now, you discovered you like those potatoes and it appears that your friends are still your friends even if they won't ever do 3000 miles with you in 6 days again. And home probably never looked so good.

[kimby]

We all had input. We picked from a list of things along the route, each picking what we would most like to see. We stayed in one city for three nights and another for two so we had breaks from straight driving along the way. We still counted the miles we drove those days but they were in local areas, not down the highway to a new location. Our first day and last day were the longest drives. All the other days were either fairly local or had sites to stop at sprinkles along the way.

I would never put people in my car without them knowing what we were doing, and when we were leaving and returning. It would far to closely resemble kidnapping otherwise! Lol

"I" did not have a grueling trip planned. "We" had a trip planned. One friend and I have talked about this for years. The other friend made the decision between this part of the world and another. We all picked the stops together (a group email back and forth with website links and much discussion). We did a four day trip last year that included four major cities. There were none of the problems we experienced this time.

I had two tired moments along the way. One first thing on the first day. Despite being a morning person I was a bit sleepy until we hit our first stop. The second one was on our last day. Pretty much the same scenario but it hit after our first stop and was mre muscle fatigue than being tired. Two acetaminophen and thirty minutes and I was fine.

As for apologizing, I did it at pretty much their every complaint along the way. They would always reply with some version of it's not your fault.

It was a little hurtful the way you said "even if they wouldn't do a road trip" like that with me again. Maybe it shouldn't be but it was after being vulnerable and sharing the humiliating complaints they made along the way.

[kimby]

I answered on my phone earlier so it made it difficult to read and reread what I had written and also to scroll to Dema's response so here are a few clarifications and things I have thought through in the bit of time since my post....

Parts of the drive were phenomenally beautiful others eerily beautiful and other parts, meh. Parts of what we did required driving through (in the same way that a drive through safari would be time in the car, but not about time in the car or distance).

Only two days of the drive required more than 9 hours of scheduled driving....each was over by only approximately 30 minutes.

Your questions made me realize how much of this we did plan together, so I began to wonder why I felt such responsibility. I think it was because they were complaining about the drive, and I was the driver. One person complained about the heat, and it was my car. (Though I don't know anyone's car who could cool down in two minutes when it is 100 out, ).

They hassled me a lot about never stopping to let them eat, especially when they talked with the people we stayed with. I don't like being accused of things that aren't true. At pretty much every town/city/community of any size I would ask if anyone needed a stop, a drink, or food. They would generally either wishy wash until it was too late or say no. I offered...over and over and over. On our last day before heading home, I pretty much forced a lunch stop because I knew it would really only easily work into the schedule in this one time frame. I told one that now they couldn't give me a hard time because they had food. She said, "Don't you think we will find something else to complain about?" Now, don't get me wrong. That would have been hysterical under normal circumstances. But these weren't normal as neither were quite acting themselves.

I think I may adopt what someone said to me privately about how I should look at this, "Not my circus, not my monkeys."

We choose. We choose our attitude. I chose to enjoy myself as much as possible in between darts. If they chose to not enjoy, that is on them.

[dema]

Sounds like you answered your own question. It was a joint party with joint decisions, you did more than your fair share of the work, you drove, you provided the car and they belly ached. Sounds like you have no hook to be on.