Christianity Oasis Forum

[vahn]

Still riding on the exhilaration from the freedom and the lifting of the weight from my conscience that I wasn't even aware of existed , since it had been buried so deep , when I wasn't even prepared nor planned on forgiving a person or persons that I had held a considerable amount of ... let's just say hate since being led to forgive a Muslim and in turn leading him to our Lord .
Being captivated by that "experience" there hadn't been a day that passed since that I didn't thirst for a repeat . But , as I said before that was an experience that my Lord had planned on to show me His works .

I am about to undertake a yet another such journey , only this time it is of my own wish to do so to even bigger and "fresher in memory" nemesis , and that is to the person who took my daughter's life .

You know , I am finding out more of the truth in what my sponsor had said to me a long while ago , " Any fool can say I forgive you , especially to the ones that care about , but doing so is a different matter , especially when it comes to a person you dislike or even hate " .
See , here's what I learnt , even our Lord Himself never said " I forgive you " but rather He always said "The Father has " even on the cross He asks His Father to forgive them , for they know not what they do .
So , no matter what kind of lip service I give in "forgiving" others myself , I get to thinking "who am I to do such a thing , what kind of power do I think I have ? " Isn't that the very reason we continue on saying things like " well I forgave this or that person BUT ... "
That realization came to me as a direct result of the Divine Intervention by the Holy Spirit that Guided me to have the Muslim forgiven , hence his baptism and new name of Paul . And now , everytime I see a Muslim , and believe me there are plenty of them around here , I cant help but smile in gratitude for the freedom from them which ultimately brought me closer to my Lord , hence the Vow , and the undertaking of this journey as well .

A little twist . I am terrified !! , Never in my life have I experienced such fear , fear as in awe and reverence that is , and not five minutes passes me by that I get to think , " Maybe your making too much of this whole thing vahn , just ask the Lord to forgive him and be done with it ! "

I just thought wise to keep posting in case I "change" my mind on the way down there . Planning on leaving with the sun rising , need all the prayers I can muster .

[momof3]

praying for you, vahn. I know this cant be easy..but it is not impossible.

just remember, Jesus said in teaching us how to pray.......forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us.

He does want us to forgive. Through Him, His healing, His help, with a choice to do so..and the will to do it, knowing we have been forgiven for so much, He gives us the power through His love to forgive others...and it's done to release others and ourselves from the bondages unforgiveness holds us in. Through Him, you do have the power to forgive.

God bless you, bro.
in Jesus,
momo

[comfy]

We can forgive, but we always can find more of all that is involved in forgiving, as we grow in this.

Yes, Jesus on the cross *prayed* forgiveness to those people; but in order to so pray, He needed first to be forgiving them in His own heart in order to really mean it

And God in us has us with Him so we *are* forgiving, along with the Holy Spirit *in* us doing the forgiving > and we're *piggy-backing*

So . . . relax and enjoy the ride > rest in the LORD, Vahn . . . God bless you to discover how God will have you doing things, once you are in the situation. I think of how Jesus says not to think ahead of time what we shall say before the judges, because in that time God will teach us and have us speaking His words. I see a principle in this, how in *all* things we can be wise and more creative, by not planning in advance > even moments before I set out to do something . . . be open for how God will have me doing better than I thought I would, even in practical things that I may know how to do . . . I keep finding Him making me doing better.

[vahn]

So I go to pick up my log sheet at headquarters , its not in my box , ok , dispatch , " NC route been canceled ". First thing on my mind was " See , maybe God doesn't want me to do this after all " , dispatch , "I'm typing up your log for Mon . You can pick it up at the copier . Log , Mon . NC . " OK God what're you doing to me " .

[deetu]

Maybe it's the enemy who is trying to stop you and make you obsess over what you want to do.

I am always able to forgive when I bless the person. That is hard but works the best.

[vahn]

Momof3 , about the Lord's prayer .

I am of Armenian descent , and my early religious teachings were in Armenian , which "practises" first century Christianity , Apostolic , using the Greek translation of Scripture in school , and of course both I had my mother and her father helping me with translating all that into Armenian for school work .

Well naturally , take any book in any language and set it in a different region or culture , and when the content of the book is expressed , it naturally takes on the "flavor" of that culture whether it be by translation , interpretation or merely by reason of some words in one language don't even exist in others at all , sometimes even in the native language that the book is written . Take the word "meek" for example , no where else in the entire English language has an equal to it , and never used except in the Bible , KJV , and moreover , even when it is used , it is almost always in the context of or pertaining to Scriptures , and if we were to go from London to New York , the word meek will end up having two , though similar , but nevertheless two different meanings , but always pertaining to Scripture , nowhere else .

Where am I going with this ! who knows ! .

Oh , yeah , "Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us "
Reading it in English , in that manner , we are assuming the role of the forgiver , but , the way it is read in Greek and consequently passed on to me , it is " Just as we are forgiven by the Father we forgive others by the Father " or better yet , "Through the Power of God we forgive others , just as we are forgiven " .
Thus had been my learnings . In fact , arriving in America the first time I knew of the Lord's prayer was at a meeting and the chairperson asked me to lead with the Lord's Prayer in closing , I had to ask what it was , and she said , "Just say Our Father , vahn and they'll pick it up from there ! " and I said " That's the Lord's prayer isn't it ? " and she goes "God you're a genius vahn ! " , and for years I thought of it as a totally different prayer exclusive to AA . And everytime they would say "as we forgive those ... " I'd end up at the kitchen table of whoever my "sponsor" would be at the time till 2 AM arguing about it . But that was some 100 years ago . ( I hope I'm not doing that tonight Momo ! )

Yes you are right at that , I just didn't think of it till you brought it up . Now you see how wrapped up I am with this whole thing .

Luv ya all

[comfy]

A hoping you do good card . . . from

. . . . . *Fish*. . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. . . . . . . .x
and. . . .XXOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. . ..X
. . . . . . OXXXXXXXXXXXx..
. . . . . . . . . . \*

[vahn]

Comfy , you wrote

A hoping you do good card . . . from

. . . . . . . . . . . .

. . . . . . . . .xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. . . . . . . .x
and. . . .XXOXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX. . ..X
. . . . . . OXXXXXXXXXXXx..
. . . . . . . . . . \*

terribly sorry , but this is the best I could do , considering the time limit . As you can see it's still incomplete , but then again who is , while still on this earth ?


[img][img]http://i695.photobucket.com/albums/vv320/vahn-1/fishcopy.jpg[/img]



[/img]

[deetu]

meek as a mouse

[vahn]

I E-mailed a notification to the chaplain at the jail in NC , informing him of the postponment of my p/u-delivery log form here , for he is the "mediator" , and also asking him for change in arrangements .
I just received a reply from him this AM informing me of Bob's chickening out , although he had agreed on the "visit" however , was not aware of the reason for it , but .. He had agreed w / the chaplain if he could set up on line voice/video chat arrangement he would go for that .

I always knew of God's plans and ways not being as mine , or anyone else's for that matter . Here I am , fussing and pacing the floors 24/7 , loosing sleep from nervousness that at times turn to down-right aggravations especially after receiving the rescedule of the trip , all of a sudden I get this "Oh , Bob chickened out" and my first reaction was " No kidding Sherlock ! what else would you expect ? He'd always been a chicken to begin with !! " Totally forgetting about God's will in this picture and my own "chickening-out" entertainments of the thought at times .

I don't know , somebody's prayers are being answered in all this , though I had been praying myself but , whoever it is that is praying must be bribing God , for theirs are being answered in a better way , , just kidding , whoever it is I thank you , maybe you could show me your method sometime , and please don't stop praying ok ? . Oh by the way , while you're at it , can you see if you were to ask Him to provide me with a camera and a microphone as well ?

Now I gota go shopping for a camera to hook up on my puter , I was wondering , are these things recordable ? or at least save-able ? does anyone know ? .

Thank you all for all you support in all this , will continue keeping you posted .

Luv you all
In brotherhood of Christ our Lord
vahn

[comfy]

Hi, Vahn . . . what you quoted back from my "card" is not what I posted. May be your computer shows differently than mine. Anyway, that fish in your post is beautiful.

About if you can record a computer-cam conversation . . . I'd say if you have the computer technology and know how to do it, yes. But if you didn't get what I posted, your computer might be limited or not set up for a number of things. Mine is old, but it is able to do certain things. But I'm finding that different computers have different abilities, or they haven't been set up for certain things.

The post I gave you on my computer shows two goldfish emoticons swimming above a computer sketch of Low Life represented by a giant black O for his mouth with a smaller blue O for his eye, and there are x's forming his body and tail and a fin below. But what you quoted back is not like this. So, your computer might be different.

About your dealings with Bob . . . if Bob is the one you were going to go to forgive > if you are so nervous or whatever about this . . . I'd say it can be good to wait on the LORD for how He would calm you and make you more natural and satisfied to do this. Forcing it would not really be doing it, I would think. I'm thinking, right now, how Jesus came to forgive murderers and any sorts of evil people > He approached us, as the One who wants us to become His very own brothers and sisters.

Paul had been taking Christians captive, then voting for them to be killed. I'd say these people included mommies and daddies. So, Jesus was approaching a man who had been killing little childrens' mothers and fathers, I can see; yet, Jesus was in the Spirit of wanting Paul to become His personal and specially loved brother.

And if we really want this way of forgiveness with someone, we have already done this in our own heart, before we get to the person, I consider. God has this hope for any evil person, at all > Ezekiel 33:11.

Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do. (in Luke 23:34) They were not asking for forgiveness, I can see. But then, after Jesus *prayed* out that forgiveness, then was when that criminal next to Jesus asked Jesus to remember him > Luke 23:34-43.

So . . . am I like this? Well . . . so . . . I need to grow more and trust You, LORD, to make me this way . . . how You would want this. Please bless Vahn with however You would correct him and heal him and feed him . . .

[vahn]

Hey comfy , first off , thanks for your replies and "keeping an eye " on me , but that's what we do here don't we ? Or at least we should .
Comfy I just want you to know that your comment was not taken in any other way but in humor , I just saw the fish(s) and went to town with it , though I have to admit I get the "low life" part of it .
That I do get the whole page in its entirety , active emoticons and all , however, when placed in Quote box the quote box itself doesn't have the capability to show it in its entirety . don't sweat it bro .

As of for Bob's "issue" , by posting it here , I was actually trying to get rid of this "gnawing" feeling in the back of my head every time the thought would cross my mind , I didn't know what it was , until that I took my sponsor's suggestion he said once , "when in doubt , ask , let other people know what's going on in your head " which in turn , I suggest that to my own sponsees . And it works like a charm .
After mentioning this to another friend (though not in the same context) but nevertheless , coupled that with the general theme of the responses , that "nervousness had subsided tremendously , in fact it had virtually vanished ! , my job is , I gathered from all the advice(s) , is to be willing and ready and let God Provide the time and means to do so , when He see's fit . Also I took the advice of a dear friend , which by the way coincides with what you are saying , and simply prayed upon it and turned the whole matter to our ever Loving Lord in the Spirit of What Would He Do , and I'm simply waiting . Being more at peace with it as a result .

See , if one person were to tell me I'm growing a tail , I would probably say something like "Get outa here " . And when a second one says the the same , I would say " Oh so you you heard the other one saying that didn't you ?" But if five or more people approach and say the same thing , my best bet would be to do a yoga neck stretching and see what's on my rear end huh ? Hopefully it would not be a boot mark ..... My own !!

Once again thank you all