Christianity Oasis Forum

[Upward]

I hear this often by nonbelievers that no one in their right mind could trust or believe the Bible is the Word of God. They say science today has proved evolution. They will throw out names like Steven hawkins Carl Sagen etc and try and make the believer feel like they are small and don't know any better. We are supposed to cowar in the corner because we just don't have anything or anyone on our side.

Rubbish......

They forget history. They forget that every scientific discipline you can think of was started by a believer.

I would like them to look at the following list of Scientists and tell me which ones are idiots..

Scientists--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

‘I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by men who were inspired. I study the Bible daily.’
Sir Isaac Newton

Isaac Newton is well known as one of the greatest scientists who ever lived… less well known is his deep belief in God and his conviction that scientific investigation leads to a greater knowledge of God the Creator of the universe….


Nicholas Copernicus (1473-1543)
Copernicus was the Polish astronomer who put forward the first mathematically based system of planets going around the sun.

Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1627)
Bacon was a philosopher who is known for establishing the scientific method of inquiry based on experimentation and inductive reasoning. In De Interpretatione Naturae Prooemium, Bacon established his goals as being the discovery of truth, service to his country, and service to the church. Although his work was based upon experimentation and reasoning, he rejected atheism as being the result of insufficient depth of philosophy, stating, "It is true, that a little philosophy inclineth man’s mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion; for while the mind of man looketh upon second causes scattered, it may sometimes rest in them, and go no further; but when it beholdeth the chain of them confederate, and linked together, it must needs fly to Providence and Deity." (Of Atheism)


Johannes Kepler (1571-1630)
Kepler was a brilliant mathematician and astronomer. He did early work on light, and established the laws of planetary motion about the sun. He also came close to reaching the Newtonian concept of universal gravity - well before Newton was born! His introduction of the idea of force in astronomy changed it radically in a modern direction. Kepler was an extremely sincere and pious Lutheran, whose works on astronomy contain writings about how space and the heavenly bodies represent the Trinity. Kepler suffered no persecution for his open avowal of the sun-centered system, and, indeed, was allowed as a Protestant to stay in Catholic Graz as a Professor (1595-1600) when other Protestants had been expelled!

Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)

Rene Descartes and Francis Bacon (1561-1626) are generally regarded as the key figures in the development of scientific methodology. Both had systems in which God was important, and both seem more devout than the average for their era.

Isaac Newton (1642-1727)
In optics, mechanics, and mathematics, Newton was a figure of undisputed genius and innovation. In all his science (including chemistry) he saw mathematics and numbers as central. What is less well known is that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion on an intelligent and powerful Being."

Michael Faraday (1791-1867)
Michael Faraday was the son of a blacksmith who became one of the greatest scientists of the 19th century. His work on electricity and magnetism not only revolutionized physics, but led to much of our lifestyles today, which depends on them (including computers and telephone lines and, so, web sites). Faraday was a devoutly Christian member of the Sandemanians, which significantly influenced him and strongly affected the way in which he approached and interpreted nature. Originating from Presbyterians, the Sandemanians rejected the idea of state churches, and tried to go back to a New Testament type of Christianity.

William Thomson Kelvin (1824-1907)
Kelvin was foremost among the small group of British scientists who helped to lay the foundations of modern physics. His work covered many areas of physics, and he was said to have more letters after his name than anyone else in the Commonwealth, since he received numerous honorary degrees from European Universities, which recognized the value of his work. He was a very committed Christian, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions."

Albert Einstein (1879-1955)
Einstein is probably the best known and most highly revered scientist of the twentieth century, and is associated with major revolutions in our thinking about time, gravity, and the conversion of matter to energy (E=mc2). Although never coming to belief in a personal God, he recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once remarked to a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."


TABLE I
SCIENTIFIC DISCIPLINES ESTABLISHED
BY

CREATIONIST SCIENTISTS

DISCIPLINE SCIENTIST
ANTISEPTIC SURGERY JOSEPH LISTER (1827-1912)
BACTERIOLOGY LOUIS PASTEUR (1822-1895)
CALCULUS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
CELESTIAL MECHANICS JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
CHEMISTRY ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
COMPARATIVE ANATOMY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)
COMPUTER SCIENCE CHARLES BABBAGE (1792-1871)
DIMENSIONAL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
DYNAMICS ISAAC NEWTON (1642-1727)
ELECTRONICS JOHN AMBROSE FLEMING (1849-1945) ELECTRODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879)
ELECTRO-MAGNETICS MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
ENERGETICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
ENTOMOLOGY OF LIVING INSECTS HENRI FABRE (1823-1915)
FIELD THEORY MICHAEL FARADAY (1791-1867)
FLUID MECHANICS GEORGE STOKES (1819-1903)
GALACTIC ASTRONOMY WILLIAM HERSCHEL (1738-1822)
GAS DYNAMICS ROBERT BOYLE (1627-1691)
GENETICS GREGOR MENDEL (1822-1884)
GLACIAL GEOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
GYNECOLOGY JAMES SIMPSON (1811-1870)
HYDRAULICS LEONARDO DA VINCI (1452-1519)
HYDROGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
HYDROSTATICS BLAISE PASCAL (1623-1662)
ICHTHYOLOGY LOUIS AGASSIZ (1807-1873)
ISOTOPIC CHEMISTRY WILLIAM RAMSAY (1852-1916)
MODEL ANALYSIS LORD RAYLEIGH (1842-1919)
NATURAL HISTORY JOHN RAY (1627-1705)
NON-EUCLIDEAN GEOMETRY BERNHARD RIEMANN (1826- 1866) OCEANOGRAPHY MATTHEW MAURY (1806-1873)
OPTICAL MINERALOGY DAVID BREWSTER (1781-1868)
PALEONTOLOGY JOHN WOODWARD (1665-1728)
PATHOLOGY RUDOLPH VIRCHOW (1821-1902)
PHYSICAL ASTRONOMY JOHANN KEPLER (1571-1630)
REVERSIBLE THERMODYNAMICS JAMES JOULE (1818-1889)
STATISTICAL THERMODYNAMICS JAMES CLERK MAXWELL (1831-1879) STRATIGRAPHY NICHOLAS STENO (1631-1686)
SYSTEMATIC BIOLOGY CAROLUS LINNAEUS (1707-1778)
THERMODYNAMICS LORD KELVIN (1824-1907)
THERMOKINETICS HUMPHREY DAVY (1778-1829)
VERTEBRATE PALEONTOLOGY GEORGES CUVIER (1769-1832)

[TrueAndMagneticNorth]

Hi Upward,

A great post. There is spiritual warfare at every turn in this world, and the evolutionist-creationist debate is obviously an ongoing battle-front in this regard.

The fact of the matter is that Darwinism fits all of the major criteria of a religion. And as it is currently the religion of the establishment, it is forced onto us by this world at almost every turn (for example, one can't even watch a good old space documentary these days without faith-based references to the big bang, among other things, as if they're bona fide fact).

People say they regard Darwinism as fact. But when asked as to why, they usually mutter the word 'scientific'. When asked to give more info, they can't.

Christian author John Lennox describes in a sound scholarly way how completely false the science v creationism paradigm is, and in so doing he points out numerous gaping holes and articles of blind faith in the belief systems of people like Hawking and Dawkins, people who the world would like us to believe are infallible geniuses. Moreover, he makes a sound point that science, true science-free of agendas and the like- goes hand in hand with the universe God created.

There are countless bible verses that refer to lieing, and what an abomination it is to God. Moreover, we are to be under no illusion about the original sources of these lies.

In John 8:44 the people who rejected Jesus are told, 'You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies'.

In this light, we shouldn't assume that Darwinism is merely a misguided quest for truth. Rather, what it embodies is a hatred for truth. After all, what sort of scientist can really call themself that at all when they discount all other possibities about the origins of man, except for their chosen belief system?

And why are Darwinists so paranoid about the idea of creationist science being taught alongside Darwinism in public schools? If they really were so sure of the 'truth' of their belief system, they would be more than confident that their belief system would stand up well against the other one.

Lastly, it should be noted that even the great Darwinist prophets Hawking and Dawkins have admitted that they can't disprove the existence of God. Yes, even these men that the world tells us are infallible.

If anyone has a spare half-an-hour, I suggest they watch this clip that very eloquently argues what I have tried to say in this post, that Darwinism is nothing more than another religion

http://www.creationtoday.org/why-evolut ... t-science/

As a footnote, it is worth nothing that the presenter of this video, in another presentation he made, pointed out that a pro-Darwinist group took such offence at his presentations, that they strongly encouraged some of their followers to go and protest at one of his upcoming presentations. A misguided quest for truth? No, an all-encompassing hatred for the truth.

Upward, sorry I went on so long here. Your post was great and didn't need anything more added to it. However, maybe some of the little extras here will be of interest to any other potential readers.

God bless.

[1st Timothy 4:12]

I see it this way, no heat, no big bang, no evolution... The big bang would have needed heat but what would have caused the heat? a star? no theysay that there was no starts.