Christianity Oasis Forum

[vahn]

The reason I put (prt 1) in title is bacause for the past two weeks or so , or even maybe 3 or 4 , it had been laid heavy upon my heart to hear so many misconceptions and misleading information , stygma , and sometimes downright phsycho-babble by both well-meaning AND self-serving individuals , so I figured , "If some are out there talking about things just to make noise , I might as well say something while making noise ! "

In "part 2" I will be dealing with the difference between addiction Vs. heavy, or continious use . (shoulda first switched prt 1 w/prt 2 huh ? ) ... well ok , I'll blame it on my not knowing the order or the addage "Putting the horse before the cart" went ... or is it the other way around ? ... ... ok , ok , ... got an idea ... How about we were to put BOTH the horse AND the buggy NEXT to each other FIRST , then we figure out which goes in front of the other ok ?

In order for one to recover from ANYTHING there MUST FIRST be an alteration of some sort that had to been taken place at some point of time or place right ? For example , we "recover" from surgery , because we are not the "same" anymore ... someone cut us up and replaced , removed , or altered something within us , though the purpose of it was (the surgery) was well meant but it STILL caused some other damage(s) ....(we can start with the wallet !! )

Do you know why "addiction" is never mentioned in the Bible ? .... Because addiction is NOT a sin , that's why . ... The closest I got to read that have a resemblance of addicion is when our Lord told the woman caught in the act of adultery "Go ... and sin NO MORE " , now why would He say that ? Wasn't His implication that she would ? I mean , He didn't say "don't get CAUGHT (abstinance) no more" did He ? ... He said that b'cause He knew that she would , IF , left to her own devices ... (addiction(s) .

Another reason why addiction is not mentioned is , (and sad to say that it is still practiced to this day) the fact that addicted people were considered "posessed by evil spirits" or something) therefore , outcasts .. they just simply cast them out !! .... remember the the posessed person mentioned , "He hung aroud the graveyards"

Finally .... Recovery .... The man who was blind from birth , knew what a camel was , he knew what a donkey was , in fact he knew EVERYTHING that a person with 20/20 vision knew ... as long as he was blind !!! BUT , our Lord popps into the scene , gives the man his sight and the man goes "YIKES !!" and he promptly walks right into traffic and gets run over by a camel (or was it a donkey)... he couldn't tell which one was which !! ... and he sez , "Know what ? ... I'd better follow this Man , He'll Teach me !!" and he does .. get on "the Narrow Road" of recovery ... to learn NEW ways (little that he knew it would take him the rest of his life ) .

Abstinance Vs. recovery .... To the woman caught in the act , He said "Go ... abstain" .... The graveyard-hopper and the blind man FOLLOWED Him , they got on the PATH ... To learn New Ways of handeling things .

In recovery we DONT "IMPROVE" our lifestyle , we REPLACE (get rid of) the old , and LEARN the new ... then (comes the hardest part) ... DECIDE which way to go .

(why do I feel like I'm rambeling ?) ok , till next time .



In Christ , our Lord
vahn

[dantyriverside]

Thank you vahn. There are still things that I dont understand and need to learn so I hope your analogy helps others as much as it helped me.

loves danty

[realtmg]

Hi,
Thanks Vahn.

Just remind that Vahn's posting was instrumental in the falls,hard knocks, waking up who know were?
We try tell you of our own experiences and see if any of the things spoken have hit home.
We are just a click away most of the time.
Nice thread as we stay in harmony withe our Lord.
Looking forward to the replies.
Hurry vahn.


In Christ Love,
Real

[vahn]

Ok , here we go ... Part 2

Very early on in my recovery process , sponsor suggested I attend 90 meetings in 90 days ... of course that meant retaliation time on my part right ? ... "But , but , isn't it supposed to be 30 in 30 ? " and he sez "Yep it is , but vahn , you are SOOO SPECIAL , we gonna make it 90 ok ? " .... So , the razor-sharp mind of THIS special alkie , figures "Ok , I'll show him !! ...If I were to make 3 meetings a day , I'd still be done in 30 days , HAH !! " .... Three days later , I'm whining to him if he was sure about this 90/90 "stuff" (of course I was careful not to mention the 90/30 genius !! ) , so , upon his "curiously concerned" way askin me if there was a "problem" , I said "yeah ... I keep hearing the same thing , over and over again !! " .... Putting his hand on my shoulder he sez "Have you ever met a drunk that "got" ANYTHING just from hearing it the FIRST time ? " ... Up to the day of his passing , I hardly missed a day without making a meeting , to this very day , I STILL make it a point to talk to at least 2 drunks or dope-fiend (wherever 2 or three gather ...? ) Why ? .. Why do I feel that I MUST do that ? ..... Because ... I didnt become an alcoholic/addict because I drank and drugged too much , but rather , I drank and drugged too much BECAUSE i'm an alcoholic /addict ! ... That's why .

Part 2

If we were to take 100 "perfectly healthy" individuals , isolate them in some quarters for a month , and feed them nothing but alcohol as an "experiment" ... after the 30 days are over , 98 of those 100 would be going "Man , am I glad that nightmare is over !!" .... The other two ? They'd be trying to find ways of how to re-up ! .... for the "good of research" , of course .

Repeat scenario , same 100 , same duration , only this time let us substitude the alcohol with narcotics ... Result ? ... ALL 100 WILL become addicted to the drugs !!! .. NO exceptions .

Here's the "thing" .... After propper detoxification from the drugs (however long it may take) .... 98 of those people will probably vow to never take even an aspirin for the rest of their lives , and the other two ? ... You guessed it !! AND , upon closer look at these two individuals , we will find out that they are the SAME two that were trying to re-up with the alcohol research !

We can go on conducting the same experiment time and again , substituting the substance , even activities (gambling , porn , smoking , the list can go on ad infinitum ...) though the detoxification process may differ , but the result is ALWAYS GOING TO BE THE SAME .

Given sufficient enough reason(s) , the non-addict can easily put down the damage causing substamce at the drop of a hat to never look back at it again , no matter how hard , how much , and for whatever duration they'd been tangled up with the substance or activity , they just simply say "This is causing me to do things beyond its worth ... needs to stop " , and down comes the axe ... end of subject .

Not so with the addict . Is it ? (the question is directed to the addicts ... who by now should be grinning with a smirk on their faces ) .... Why not ?

Boy can I go on forever answering that question , and it is my sincere hope that I get as many opinions and experiences on the subject , but , however , to sum it all up (besides it is getting closer to church time) ...part three ? ... (don't let Real hear that ok ?)

The addicted person suffers from a threefold ILLNESS .... Physical -Mental-Spirtual ...

Take the alcohol away from the alcoholic (sober him up) .... He is STILL two-thirds drunk !!! He needs to recover from ALL THREE . Otherwise , it is just ABSTINANCE .

Take the drink away from a drunken horse-thief ..... You'd still end up with a horse-thief ... a sober-horse-thief ???

Luv ya all


In Christ , our Lord

[dantyriverside]

Ok so thank you for putting that in laymans terms that I can understand. I just figured as long as "IT" wasnt around. Regardless whatever it was the coast was clear. Guess thats why when the kids say mom try this drink. I am like sure and before I know it they are laughing saying look at mom she is tipsy. Here mom try this. Whats one more... It's not like I am around it all the time. It doesnt matter that my meds say fatal if mixed with alcohol they just put that on there for folks who really drink. Right. The things we tell ourselves. Thanks vahn

[vahn]

Hey Danty

If there was ANY "thanx" in order , I am the one who should be thanking you for giving me the opportunity to be of service , to a fellow "sufferer" . (by the way , I don't suffer from insanity anymore ... I enjoy every minute of it !! ) , ooops , did I say insanity ? Shame on me !! ...

But seriously , wouldn't that be a fitting description of us , I mean , how else would one describe a perso who , upon "making a mistake" , turns his car into an dead-end alley ending with a brick wall , running head-on to it , and saying things like "Man ! What a place to put a wall at ? " or, "Man I knew I shoulda replaced that steering wheel on this car ... it never steers right !!" Worse yet ! ... Goes out and he DOES replace the wheel , and ... He makes the SAME turn !!! ... and he's baffled by it !!! ("duhhh , where did I go wrong ?" I bought the wrong WHEEL !!)

Some times later , he finds himself landed in a recovery group (Brick-Wall-Crashers Anonymous ?) , and his sponsor asking him , "So , do you believe that a Power , Greater than yourself is needed to RESTORE you to sanity ?" (2nd Step) ... of course he be going "Well yeaahhh ??? " ... but if the sponsor would be asking him if he thiought he might be a mental defective , he'd be wanting to beat the living daylight out of him right ? .

Ok , ok , enough of sharing my story ...let's get on with it .

Alcoholism , or ANY other thing you might be wanting to attach -ISM to ... Addiction , is a CONDITION(allergy ...disease ...illness ...dis-ease ... or whatever the "scientific intelectuals" may wanna call it) , that afflicts ONLY SOME people , like 1 or 2 out of a 100 , and stays or has a tendency to stay DORMANT , UNTILL that is , it is "activated" by some substance or activity that produces the EFFECT that the afflicted gets addicted to , makes sence ? , For example ; Though I aquired a taste to it later (involuntarily) , I hated the taste of alcohol , BUT I loved the effect it produced . another example of "activation" ? ... I went from "nice" to a babbeling fool in four seconds -Just add alcohol .

It is a condition that the afflicted has absolutely no knowledge of , and in with people , they may even spend all their life as happily as any "normal" person would ..AS LONG AS THEY NEVER TOUCH THE "ACTIVATING" INGREDIENT - In other words , addiction is NOT DEVELOPED by continious , or heavy use , it is there at all times !. What actually happens is , it WORSENS , PROGRESSES and CONTROLS every fiber of existence of the individual and eventually takes his very life !

What used to take 2 or three drinks for the EFFECT to be produced , becomes 4 or 5 , four or five bcomes seven or eight , .. and I tell you what ... I put seven or eight drinks in my system within an hour .... MY MIND IS NOT FUNCTIONING RIGHT ANYMORE ... I don't care who you may think you can drink under the table ... I used to say that a lot , and that is exactly where I always ended up after everyone left about their business , or families , UNDER the TABLE .

"Its the first drink that gets you drunk" !! ... Oh how I despised them with a passion when they told me that .



In Christ , our Lord

[vahn]

As I mentioned before , and tried to the best of my ability , cover the THREE-FOLD aspect of our addiction (though not complete) ... Physical - mental - spiritual . Having somewhat covered the physical and the mental aspect , I think now is a good time for me to go on the spiritual .. The Most Crucial part .

"And God breathed into him (Adam) ..." God is Spirit , He can only breathe Spirit ... and it was that very Breath that gave man his life . Hence the term "We are not human beings trying to live a Spiritual life , but rather , Spiritual beings living a human life , in a human body" ..And that Spirit , God's very own Breath , is in our souls , and , here's the very core of our struggle(s) .... Our souls , full of Spirit NEEDS to express , press out , share , give , show , Spirit to others !!
Example 1 : Remember , again , the graveyard-hopper , after our Lord's assesment of his condition and releasing (freeing) his soul from the anguish , what did our Lord instruct him to do ? ...He said " Go and tell your friends about it " , right ? .... Wait a minute !! .... Friends ? ... I mean , wasn't he an outcast ? Forced to live in seclusion among grave-sites ? Who could possibly be his friends ??? EXCEPT maybe , Fellow grave-hoppers !!! ...AHHH .
Example 2 : The woman who "lost" the coin . She had to "CLEAN" the house in order for her to "find" the coin again , and , after "FINDING" it ... she invites her neighbours to rejoice WITH her , to share her joy (express) with others .
"No one , lights a candle , and places it under a basket" ... we can go on and on ...

Latin , "En vino veritas" , English translation .. "In wine there is truth" ... Hmmm

Ok , soooo , where am I going with all this ?

With an average Joe , a sporadic , minimal , expression of Spirit - whether it comes in the form of sudden joy , cause for happiness , any positive experience - will suffice , and , it may be well worth mentioning , that they have no difficulty doing so ... But NOT with individuals with addictive temperment , ESPECIALLY the ones trying to live under God's "Rules" . That need is constant with us , we need to do it continiously .
Wine is mentioned throughout Scripture ... Scripture has to do with God ... But why is it mentioned so often ? (and also , Let us notice WHEN is the wine consumed) ... Usually before Supper (prepping to say Grace) , special occassions (Weddings...
feast) ... before prayer ceremonies ....
The POINT : As we go about our daily routines in life , our minds become tangled up with all sorts hindrences and distractions that pushes our Spiritual morals to the limit , hence making it difficult for us to "connect" with Spirit (Prayer) .. so , a sip or two , will release all the inhibitions that are blocking the way to express our soul's desires , to approach God , how can one go to God with an angry mind ? The mind needs to be sedated enough from the worldly hustle and bustle in order for the Spirit gets a chance to move .... Our Lord often "went away (from it all) " to pray .
By the way ... tobacco , which was introduced later does the same trick , only the effect is shorter in duration .

Well , with the alcoholic/addict , whose needs of this expression of Spirit are most profound and the ability to do so , for some reason or other , most difficult from the average Joe , naturally the amount and potency of the substance used to aid him are far greater ... now ... couple all that with the physical "allergy" that he developes , loses control over the amount and the next thing you know , he ends up with someone else praying FOR him instead ... by now he's too drunk or too high to pray .

Solution .... with the exception of tobacco addiction (in which the sequence is rather reversed) ... Stop the physical injestion , clear the mind , and then go at it where Spiritual matters need to be dealt with and practised on a day to day basis .... what the recovering alcoholic has , is a daily reprieve , based on the maintenance of his Spiritual condition .
As far as the smoker is concerned ... he needs to FIRST , clear the cob-webs (whatever they are that making them tense) , Go Spiritual , then , tobacco is the farthest from their physic .


In Christ , our Lord
vahn