Christianity Oasis Member Forum & Chat Room

Are there parents here with children who have PDD-NOS? (Pervasive Developmental Disorder - Not Otherwise Specified)

Hi, Kirsten . . . I'm Bill . . . I have never had any kids, but we do have people, here, with a variety of issues about their children. And I'd say ones, here, have experience with certain things that may be true of your child if you have someone diagnosed with PDD.

I'd suggest you share a little about what you mean by PDD and some specifics about your child, here, unless this would be confidential for private message. I don't know if anyone has answered you in p.m., but usually ones answer a post like this, here.

So, if you haven't gotten any reponse, maybe tell us more about why you are asking this, because usually we have plenty of people answering about needs for someone or one's children. And even I, myself, have different kinds of experience with people so I can offer something . . . if I have some specifics to work with.

Anyway, good to see you, God bless you > and >

"casting all your care upon Him,
for He cares for you." (1 Peter 5:7)

So, if you have or know a child with PDD, you can cast this on the LORD, and see how He helps you with this. I do understand that a parent has a special place with God, so he or she can expect God to give him or her special understanding of one's children and their needs, in a way that professionals may not be able to understand and do. So, you a parent have a chance to do more, even, than anyone can . . . especially by loving a child and being simply the child's needed example of how to love and relate with people.

In my case, I was a forcepts birth and possibly I was damaged by the squishing of the forcepts, plus my mother being in toxemia, maybe, so the poisons in her system might have gotten to me. The way I was as a kid, in sin, though . . . I was poisonous, in any case. I was only about getting my next fix of candy or ice cream or fishing, basically. And I had dyslexia or something so I didn't connect with a number of educational things, and my sports capability was limited, maybe because of forcepts damage to my medulla oblongata which processes coordination of muscle commands, if I remember right > that, or higher in the brain might have been compromised so my nervous system didn't efficiently produce muscle tone and efficient nerve signalling to muscles > if I was running, no matter how hard I tried, I just couldn't get muscles going to top capability.

However, at that time I was also stressing myself about making sure I didn't sin so I'd go to Heaven, plus I'd be up . . . in high school . . . after midnight studying, with no social life . . . and we know how stress can effect our ability to live and be healthy. I was so much about myself, not caring for others.

But as I got more interested in people, I became motivated to want to learn and do certain things in order to relate with people and help them. And with this came more efficiency > I could be more alert so I picked up things more readily because I valued what I was learning, or I was able just to not bother with the things that were not directly important and I'd just give my reading and study time to only what was actually needed.

I had hated foreign language in public school. So I got nowhere with French. Then, in college I was motivated to take German and got A's. But learning to *speak* German was not needed for getting the A's; so I just skipped learning how to speak and converse. Because at that time I was mainly about making grades. Then I started caring about people > for six months, I think, I learned Italian on the street in Naples, Italy, without classes, while various other Americans there longer than me never learned. With a bilinqual dictionary on the street I got in conversations and learned enough so I put away the dictionary after maybe six months. Then I would pick up words in conversation, or I would guess the meaning of a word that was similar to an English word and ask Italians if my guessed meaning was correct.

So . . . though I was personally dysfunctional as a kid, plus "handicapped" for learning and sports coordination . . . as I became more personally interested in other people, this helped perk up my alertness for learning. And, for the Bible, I'd say God did something in my head, once > unbelievable > like I got turned inside out with extreme intense fizzing and my mouth is fuzzing off a few words, then I'm able to ask anything about the Bible, by myself, and an explanation comes. So, I got a "slight" makeover, I would say . . . a steam cleaning and reprogramming.

However, loving has gotten me the real meaning of God's word, better than any explaining ability has. But education has been aborting and perverting kids from learning in order to love. So, there are plenty of children who are developmentally disorderly, though they may be conforming and getting high grades.

Well . . . just in case this relates, or is interesting and helpful, somehow - - -

God bless you

Thanks comfy for your reply.I explain a little what PDD-NOS is.

Deficits in Social Behavior
Some infants with PDDNOS tend to avoid eye contact and demonstrate little interest in the human voice. They do not usually put up their arms to be picked up in the way that typical children do. They may seem indifferent to affection and seldom show facial responsiveness. As a result, parents often think the child is deaf. In children with fewer delays, lack of social responsiveness may not be obvious until well into the second or third year of life.

In early childhood, children with PDDNOS may continue to show a lack of eye contact, but they may enjoy a tickle or may passively accept physical contact. They do not develop typical attachment behavior, and there may seem to be a failure to bond. Generally, they do not follow their parents about the house. The majority do not show normal separation or stranger anxiety. These children may approach a stranger almost as readily as they do their parents. Many such children show a lack of interest in being with or playing with other children. They may even actively avoid other children.

In middle childhood, such children may develop a greater awareness or attachment to parents and other familiar adults. However, social difficulties continue. They still have problems with group games and forming peer relationships. Some of the children with less severe PDDNOS may become involved in other children's games.

As these children grow older, they may become affectionate and friendly with their parents and siblings. However, they still have difficulty understanding the complexity of social relationships. Some individuals with less severe impairments may have a desire for friendships. But a lack of response to other people's interests and emotions, as well as a lack of understanding of humor, often results in these youngsters saying or doing things that can slow the development of friendships.

Impairment in Nonverbal Communication
In early childhood, children with PDDNOS may develop the concrete gesture of pulling adults by the hand to the object that is wanted. They often do this without the typical accompanying facial expression. They seldom nod or shake their heads to substitute for or to accompany speech. Children with PDDNOS generally do not participate in games that involve imitation. They are less likely than typical children to copy their parents' activity.

In middle and late childhood, such children may not frequently use gestures, even when they understand other people's gestures fairly well. Some children do develop imitative play, but this tends to be repetitive.

Generally, children with PDDNOS are able to show joy, fear, or anger, but they may only show the extreme of emotions. They often do not use facial expressions that ordinarily show subtle emotion.

Impairment in Understanding Speech
Comprehension of speech in children with PDDNOS is impaired to varying degrees, depending on where the child is within the wide spectrum of PDDNOS. Individuals with PDDNOS who also have mental retardation may never develop more than a limited understanding of speech. Children who have less severe impairments may follow simple instructions if given in an immediate context or with the aid of gestures (e.g., telling the child to "put your glass on the counter," while pointing to the counter). When impairment is mild, only the comprehension of subtle or abstract meanings may be affected. Humor, sarcasm, and common sayings (e.g., "it's raining cats and dogs") can be confusing for individuals with the most mild PDDNOS.

Unusual Patterns of Behavior
The unusual responses of children with PDDNOS to the environment take several forms.

Resistance to change. Many children are upset by changes in the familiar environment. Even a minor change of everyday routine may lead to tantrums. Some children line up toys or objects and become very distressed if these are disturbed. Efforts to teach new activities may be resisted.
Ritualistic or compulsive behaviors. Ritualistic or compulsive behaviors usually involve rigid routines (e.g., insistence on eating particular foods) or repetitive acts, such as hand flapping or finger mannerisms (e.g., twisting, flicking movements of hands and fingers carried out near the face). Some children develop preoccupations; they may spend a great deal of time memorizing weather information, state capitals, or birth dates of family members.
Abnormal attachments and behaviors. Some children develop intense attachments to odd objects, such as pipe cleaners, batteries, or film canisters. Some children may have a preoccupation with certain features of favored objects, such as their texture, taste, smell, or shape.
Unusual responses to sensory experiences. Many children may seem under responsive or over responsive to sensory stimuli. Thus, they may be suspected of being deaf or visually impaired. It is common for such young children to be referred for hearing and vision tests. Some children avoid gentle physical contact, yet react with pleasure to rough-and-tumble games. Some children carry food preferences to extremes, with favored foods eaten to excess. Some children limit their diet to a small selection, while others are hearty eaters who do not seem to know when they are full.

Intelligence and Cognitive Deficits
Generally, children with PDDNOS do very well on tests requiring manipulative or visual skills or immediate memory, while they do poorly on tasks demanding symbolic or abstract thought and sequential logic. The process of learning and thinking in these children is impaired, most particularly in the capacity for imitation, comprehension of spoken words and gestures, flexibility, inventiveness, learning and applying rules, and using acquired information. Yet, a small number of children with PDDNOS show excellent rote memories and special skills in music, mechanics, mathematics, and reading.

Because many children with PDDNOS are either without functional speech or otherwise untestable, some people question the validity of testing their intelligence. Moreover, it has been observed that a number of these children show major improvements in other developmental areas during the follow-up period without a change in their tested IQ. Follow-up studies have also shown that retardation present at the time of initial diagnosis tends to persist. Those children with a low IQ show more severely impaired social development. They are more likely to display unusual social responses, such as touching or smelling people, ritualistic behavior, or self-injury.

Associated Features
The emotional expression of some children with PDDNOS may be flattened, excessive, or inappropriate to the situation. For no obvious reason, they may scream or sob inconsolably one time, yet giggle and laugh hysterically another time. Real dangers, such as moving vehicles or heights, may be ignored, yet the same child might seem frightened of a harmless object, such as a particular stuffed animal.

Its a lot to read

God bless,Kirsten

Excellent discriptions, Kirsten.
My son has been diagnosed with Asperger Syndrome.
There are many similarities.

Some parents preferr a diagnosis of PDD-NOS
over a more specific diagnosis, depending upon
insurance and educational opportunities.

If there is something specific you want to know, please
PM me. If I can help I will be more than happy to do so.

Timothy

Thank you Timothy,

I dont know if you can help me.My son is 19,and is not going to church anymore.How do you explain to him that Jesus is the lamb?He cant imagine that.There is so much more he dont understand.

Kirsten

Kirsten,

May we continue this discussion in this open forum so that others may add
their knowledge and/or correction? If not, that is ok too.

Q. 1) How does he learn best?

Q. 2) What are his favorite subjects or things to do?
(What is he really good at doing?)

Q. 3) What are his favorite games or toys or objects?

Many young adults choose to turn from their religion or
grow tired of the "same old stuff."
Or become preoccupied with other worldly things as
they explore their "choices." Or for other reasons?
In today's world this is not unusual. Some may even
tag it as being "normal." I say, its not to be unexpected.
I too, as I think many of us here on this sight, have also
made some worldy choices as young adults. Sometimes
we just have to get hungry enough and dehydrated for a
season or two or more? Sometimes we just have to go
south for a while before we realize God allows U-Turns.

But the question remains:
"How do you teach something that can't be imagined?"

Answer:
By tapping into his imagination, his own sense of awareness,
as *he* knows it.

Not everyone learns the same way. In this country we have, Individualized Educational Plans.
Commonly referred to as IEP's. An educational plan is worked
out utilizing a child's own learning style, using things of interests
to the child, in a way the child can relate to within their own level
of experience or awareness.

Kirsten, may we help you develope a sort of IEP for your son?

Example:
I never understood what was ment by "Lamb" until I saw a movie
about an Old Testament story where God told this father to place his
son on a rock and make a sacrafice of him....but!....
The story went on to depict (with editing) the sacraficing of lambs
so that peoples sins would be forgiven.
I had to actually see this (edited of course) in order to imagine it.
I had no other reference point before this to imagine what was ment
by the "Lamb of God." And the more I learn, working from that point,
the more I understsand, The Cross. ( and still learning! )

I am saying we need a reference point to start and build from there.
Where are your son's reference points? Lets start with the three
questions above.

Timothy

In one support group there was a mother of a 39 year old with severe cerebral palsy.
Wheel chair bound all his life. Can't talk. Can lift one arm about 12
inches in an effort to point. Never shows any expression on his face.

She took him to a revival meeting under a tent in a small town.
When time came for the alter call, they were going to just leave.
But they noticed what looked like a slight grin on his face.
He was trying to lift his arm. They decided to take him up for the
alter call.

She reported that he had a smile on his face and a sparkle in his eye
for the whole following week. She believed her son recieved his miracle.

Timothy,

The answers on your questions:

Q. 1) How does he learn best?
He does not like to learn.School was something he had to go but never wanted to go.

Q. 2) What are his favorite subjects or things to do?
(What is he really good at doing?)
He like to watch discovery,cartoons and driving his car

Q. 3) What are his favorite games or toys or objects?
He does not have favorite games.He never plays games.

A few people from church tried to explain some stuff to my son,after a few months they quit and we never heard from them again.They were very enthusiasticat at the beginning.I know when you have to explain 10 times and people still dont understand it makes you despondent.

Hi, Kirsten, hi Tim and anyone else . . . trying to explain "the Lamb of God" to your son. Tim got right into how lambs were sacrificed. Starting at that point with your son might not be what he would relate to.

I am thinking of *how* a lamb is, not so much about what one was used for and what was done to it, in Old Testament sacrificing. I'm thinking how Jesus being the Lamb has to do with how a lamb is >

little > the child age > and Jesus says He wants us to be as little children

soft and warm > Jesus is so loving and kind

gentle and submissive, perhaps > Jesus is so obedient and gentle

So, first with the Lamb image, I would have your son meet an actual lamb and discover it. And talk about how the lamb is so small and cute and beautiful and nice and soft and gentle and submissive to being loved. And this is what people of this world wanted to kill, because of our sin. But Jesus trusted Himself to God so He could be lamblike in going through all He did on Calvary.

But just *telling* him . . . I read a paper article about city children who were taken to an educational farm. Oh, eggs come from chickens? Pumpkins have seeds inside of them? Chicken doesn't come from pork? Corn grows on stalks? After kids have been through real life experiences of what is covered in standard New York third grade tests . . . they do better on the tests.

I'm thinking of how Jesus used the grapevine as an image . . . maybe while they were actually walking through a vineyard. And when He said His sheep know His voice . . . may be, at that time, they were at a holding place for sheep, where their shepherds came for their sheep. He was using things that were in their real lives.

I'm thinking, too, Kirsten, of how you can get a new puppie, and it is clueless. Yet, ones can teach a doggie tricks and obedience and older dogs that have been family dogs can get a vocabulary of words they can understand. It comes with being with the family, I can see . . . exposure, with the dog included in and around family loving and activities that keep the dog paying attention so it can make connections between words and whatever, without even getting an education Even without classroom education, the dog can keep hearing certain words that connect with whatever.

With one lady, she had her young dog, and was dealing with how to train him. I offered > if you want the dog to understand a certain command, say it one time, then make sure that what you command happens. Do not just keep repeating it so what you say does not mean anything to the dog. Make sure, then, that the dog knows that when you say something, words do have a meaning. And part of this is, I would dare consider > you need to spend time with the dog, so that you mean something to him and he bonds with you so he'll be interested in relating with what you say. And make sure, then, also, that you be with your dog the way you want the dog to come to know you to be as a person in your relating with your dog - - - so that, as the dog grows up, he can be developing and adjusting to you being this way. Therefore, we do not want to be impatient and forcing, etc., but how do you want your dog to feel you are?

And I'm noticing how parents with their kids are leaving them to be babysat by a TV set, video games, only ones their own age, maybe. How does this bond a child in love with one's parents? If the child does not bond with you in love, how will things you say have any meaning, later, for your child? No wonder teenies don't listen to their parents, I consider; and yet, they can be totally disciplined to conform to peers in their own incrowds, whether they like what is required or not, and even know the standards and demands are for what is not good and even deadly for them; but these are the ones the bonded to.

Also, we have those "genius baby" videos. They had images with cartoons for babies to watch. And they did pay attention to them. But, later, statistics show such children at age seven can have attention problems. I see they were developing in relating with a TV and cartoons, instead of relating with real people.

Also I can see > they were just possibly watching those genius shows, with all the things meant to stimulate them to become just smart. But they did not develop their attention ability for doing their own activities. "They learn to do what they do." They related with a TV, instead of with people. So, how could they relate with and pay attention to anything else that they did not bond to and relate with creatively?

Well, this is just a couple guesses I have about why various people have grown up the way we have. And yes, if I am more or less correct, this is because in this world we have not been taught God's way. So, now . . . no need to criticize and guilt-trip ourselves and be in denial, but start fresh with You, God, and discover how You Father us with correction and how we can do better, now, as is possible with You.

So, first with the Lamb image, I would have your son meet an actual lamb and discover it. And talk about how the lamb is so small and cute and beautiful and nice and soft and gentle and submissive to being loved. And this is what people of this world wanted to kill, because of our sin. But Jesus trusted Himself to God so He could be lamblike in going through all He did on Calvary.

My son takes everything litteral. Example: We got a new pastor, he was going to serve our town and a another town. The first sunday in our church he showed the congrecation a apple. He told us he want to serve our town for 100%, as a whole apple and not 50%. He cut the apple in two pieces showed it to the congrecation, put the two pieces together and said: I am this apple.

Comfy, you and i know what the pastor means. After the pastor said I am this apple, one person was laughing and that was my son. And more than a year after that happend he still asked the pastor if he was a apple.
That time my son was 12 years. He is 19 now but this will never change.

PRAISE THE LORD!!!
We have a connection!
This is wonderful!
Do you see it? The apple?
Do you understand what has happened in your son's mind?
This is great news!

Kirsten, What you wrote about despondency. This can affect the parents too. We get discouraged too. I do. My wife does. And when the storm gets rough, speak the words of our Lord over your child. Start with, "Peace, Be Still."

The answers you seek, Kirsten, will not be found in just one posted reply.
This will be a process. In the name of Jesus, this will be a process of progress. It may not come at our prefered schedule. But as long as we continue in the Spirit, I whole heartedly do believe, it will come as God wills it. I do believe this. I do trust in this. I do have faith in this. I do believe there are a great many of your brothers and sisters here within your Oasis family that believe this too. As for me, I only have to look at my own son to see that God still works miracles. Amen! Praise the Lord!

We parents try so hard, so very long, with all our knowledge and being, to help our children. As we all know, we can't do it by our own wisdom. It will take, God! For God is greater than that which is in the world. It will be through our faith in Him that He works. So if you, or anyone, has any doubt, pray to Jesus to remove that doubt from your heart. Then focus on the good, the pure, the lovely, His grace, His blessings and anything that is praise worthy; like that apple!

So, we speak these words over our fellow parent, our sister in Christ, as we go through this process of progress:
In the name of our blessed Lord, Christ Jesus;
" Peace. Be Still. "