Christianity Oasis Member Forum & Chat Room

I believe it has been well said that after rebirth believers have the same character, person-hood and personality, all which comprises individuals apart from their nature. It’s the work of the Father in the “life” of the Son (Col 3:4) by the power of Their Spirit that we have another nature (hence “new”), and in all this we now and forever have relationship with Them and one another (2Co 6:1; 1Th 5:10).

I see it as an acceptable understanding that saints are not supplanted from their individuality but rather supplemented with the “life” of the Lord Jesus (Col 3:3), via an additional nature which is “after the image of Him that created him,” or “it” (Col 3:10). This makes us “complete in Him” (Col 2:10) and the Spirit by this new nature the believer is “separated” (circumcised) from the old nature (“old man”), and though it yet dwells within them (Rom 7:17, 20) they are not in it (Rom 8:9), esp. concerning its guilt (Rom 8:1) and its control (Rom 6:12, 14).

The testing (strengthening) of faith using the “old man” is continually glorifying God by manifesting His “work” (Phil 2:13) within the redeemed. The sin nature and its effects are no longer a part of the saint’s life (other than its presence) concerning its ability to effect sinful desire. The natural man cannot but desire sin but the spiritual man cannot, due to the Spirit’s work within (Gal 5:17), and the Father’s “work” within.

For believers, all the “newness” (“all things are become new”) is in the nature which is of Christ (Col 3:10), which supplements believers—not supplants them! It is a common concept that it is all Jesus and none of believer, but this is in reference to that which produces “all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2 Pe 1:3), in which that which is created could have no part in effecting, but only in receiving. If the individuality of the person was eliminated, with who would there be to have fellowship? Our Father already has fellowship with the Son, and therefore desires the same with those who come to Him.

- NC (BobH)

Thank you for the work you do in Christ. I think it is fair and practical to say that we are reborn through repentance and faith in our lifetimes. I would also like to add that Christ restores (salvages) our souls with His powers when we die and before we go to heaven.

1 Corinthians 1:18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;...

notforgotten wrote:Thank you for the work you do in Christ. I think it is fair and practical to say that we are reborn through repentance and faith in our lifetimes.

Hi NF - Appreciate your reply and comments! This is always an important doctrine to bring up, and I think repentance and all things godly (1Pe 1:3) come from God "through faith" (Eph 2:8), which is always first; many of which come simultaneously with faith, i.e. holiness, sanctification, righteousness, etc--but grace and faith are always first.

notforgotten wrote: I would also like to add that Christ restores (salvages) our souls with His powers when we die and before we go to heaven.

I have an idea of what you might mean here, but need more clarification on "restores our souls." To me, I believe everything but the body is renewed and redeemed at rebirth, and so we are waiting for "the redemption of our body" (Ro 8:23). Thus, "the power of God" in these passages are applied at rebirth.

1 Corinthians 1:18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;...

God bless, chat ya latter!

Netchaplain wrote:

notforgotten wrote:I have an idea of what you might mean here, but need more clarification on "restores our souls."

Christians hold different beliefs on this topic. Salvation essentially means restoration. If you salvage something, you restore it. It is Christ who saves (salvages our souls). And it is at the end of our lifetimes that this is done.

1 Peter 1:9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

And, it is by the divine power of Christ that the soul is salvaged at the end of our faith or lifetimes. Until then, we have hope in Christ and God's promise of salvation. Also, through obedience to God (the following of Christ) we can salvage our present lives and this is God's will for us. But, it is not "eternal" salvation. Eternal salvation is something God alone does through His Son, Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:18. For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that believeth;...

Although there are Christians that believe they can change themselves well enough to be in heaven with God, Jesus, the angels, and saints...I do not believe this. I believe that it is for the most part, literally by the power of God that we are saved just before we enter heaven.

Matthew 19:25-26. When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

I found this to be a fun song.

notforgotten wrote:

Netchaplain wrote:

notforgotten wrote:I have an idea of what you might mean here, but need more clarification on "restores our souls."

Christians hold different beliefs on this topic. Salvation essentially means restoration. If you salvage something, you restore it. It is Christ who saves (salvages our souls).

Thanks, I see what you mean and agree that only God can save (redeem). It is shown in 1 Peter that redemption is the "end" or result at the point of faith (v 9); and that the Father (v 17) has redeemed believers (vs 3, 18) by the Blood of the Lord Jesus' expiation for sin (v 19).

I've found (in the last 40 yrs.) that this is how we can have a "knowing" (1Jhn 5:13) - "hope" (vs 3, 13, 21) and not merely a hopeful-hope. The knowing-hope supplies constant encouragement, and if we yet have this understanding we only lack the encouragement but not the truths it holds, which is the present and permanent possession of our faith and salvation!

"For you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (NIV); "obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls" (ESV, NASB).

I realize that a great many professing Christians within contemporary Christendom do not understand the permanency of faith and salvation. But I also found that it does require much time (usually years) and Bible study for God to give this understanding. Misunderstanding this has no effect on receiving salvation but everything to do with growing in our faith!

Blessings!