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Needless to say that I'd been contemplating the idea of throwing in the towel on all this and just simply vanish into thin air (once again) until that is , someone called it "running" !! .
Thanx to you all , especially the author of "running" , I'm still here . (I'll show them !!)

This what I did , I printed a bulletin and a little box (similar to mail slots) and posted a sign on my door "read before entering " and taped the flyer to the left and the box to the right .

On the flyer I wrote ,
Thank you for your loyalty for this retreat .
We are here to provide a POSITIVE experience .
Therefore , all comments ,concerns , complaints , frustrations , irritations, aggravations, insinuations , allegations , accusations, contemplations, consternations, and input should be directed to the box to right .

On the box I put , Free phone slips to call someone who cares to listen !

But the "brass" got a whiff of it , and after morn Devotion called me in office wanting an explanation and asked me "what's left vahn? " I said "how about turning it over to the Highest Power there Is ?" "If they dont want to hear that , I'll hand you the keys to my office right now "
He said do you think that works ? I said what do I know !!

"It's on "trial run" for two weeks" he said , ( Hah , he dont know me too well , do he ?)

vahn you never seem to surprise me...but you do so pleasantly. So you've come up with a way to gain back some control I see, and that is to let go and let God run the show. Now that you've swallowed that advice, I see you are giving others a bit of that advice as well. Watch the changes that begin to happen within people over those next "two weeks". I'd love to be able to watch

Glad you decided to not "run" anymore, and to "show us" who God really is within you. With God truly in charge, this is gonna get good. Think I might just get me some popcorn and sit back and watch

luv ya my friend

Hello Vahn,

You have been receiving some great advice. You have read many of the awesome Studies here. You are a child of God. He loves you.

I remember a few of your posts when you were going through the CCCC Study -- you expressed your love for The Lord. He loved you just the way you are, and then He gave you the power to change by the power of The Holy Spirit working in you. It all stems from His Love. He is Love.

It would be good to remember always, that God loves these other souls that you encounter daily. He loves them equally. They are His children too.

Look at them through His eyes. Yes, He sees the impact the world has had on them, but first and foremost He sees them as His children and He loves them deeply.

While I do not know if many or few of these other "retreat participants" are Born Again or not -- the thing is, we (Christians) are to love both our friends and our enemies. Where do we get that love, that perfect and precious love? We get it from Him, not from our own determination to lord over them.

The Holy Spirit gives us the power to "become" who He meant us to become, as well as the power to "do" a good work for Him. It is all His righteous and holy power. It is a gift to us from Him. It's His doing.

Get in touch, once again, with Love -- with Him. That beautiful and blessed love that brings us to our knees and has us cry Abba, Father. Thank You Jesus. And from that humbled and sweet place...feed His children, in Love, from Love.

He loves you, Vahn. Almighty God loves you, Vahn. Christ Jesus loves you, Vahn.

There is a beautiful song from way back, and it was performed by Melissa Manchester. The words say it. Ask The Holy Spirit to read the words with you.

"Looking Through The Eyes Of Love"

Please, don't let this feeling end
It's everything I am,
Everything I want to be.
I can see what's mine now,
Finding out what's true,
Since I've found you...
Looking through the eyes of love.

Now I can take the time,
I can see my life
As it comes up shining now.
Reaching' out to touch you,
I can feel so much,
Since I've found you...
Looking' through the eyes of love.

And now, I do believe,
That even in a storm, we'll find some light.
Knowing' you're beside me, I'm alright.

Please don't let this feeling end,
It might not come again;
And I want to remember
How it feels to touch you;
How I feel so much,
Since I've found you...
Looking' through the eyes of love.

Reaching out to touch you,
I can feel so much,
Since I've found you...
Looking' through the eyes of love.

Remember Vahn, He loves you, and He loves all His children.

God bless you, Vahn.
In His love,
Mack

Mack wrote:Where do we get that love, that perfect and precious love? We get it from Him, not from our own determination to lord over them.

not to lord over others > this is for me.

But not the way I would make myself not lord myself over others, but how God has me not lording myself over people.

Also . . . in Mark 10:21 > "Then Jesus, looking at him,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . loved him,
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . and said to him"

So, Jesus loved first, then spoke (o: I can criticize, first.

And I have learned about how I have been able to get a perception of a person, getting this from some one even quick thing the person has said or done or how the person reacted to me, and then I'll hold this perception on the person and cancel that person out . . . instead of finding out different things about the person and getting to know him or her or something like this. I can cancel out a whole relationship, by holding someone to some one thing I perceive because of some one thing the person has done.

"swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath" (in James 1:19)

"He who answers a matter before he hears it,
.It is folly and shame to him." (Proverbs 18:13)

Vahn, as you tell us about how ones come to you, I guess after they have had you in a study session . . . I think of how Nicodemus in John chapter three came to Jesus. And Jesus knew what Nicodemus needed. Nicodemus came talking how Jesus had to be a teacher because He did such signs and wonders, but Jesus got to dealing with what Nicodemus needed . . . to be born again. So, I'm thinking > indeed, ones who come may not be Christians, they may be huffing out of their deadness in sin and the frustration and fear about not getting what is really good for themselves, and they are the ones who need to change > not this world or any authorities or whosie-doozy (o:

And you need to change, instead of [..............] about others, and I need to change, too (o:

Now, I'm jealous that you've got the study group and people coming to your *office* > oh my . . . you've even got an o-f-f-i-c-e. Wouldn't I like to have such recognition and authority and opportunity.

I used to run out of a church, whenever someone up front rejected what I said. But then I'd be even pouting, by myself, while walking who knows how many miles and days and even weeks away from that church. And it would come to me, how I was not being compassionate and forgiving, and so I needed that rejection to bring out how I needed to do better. And Paul shares >

"And I will very gladly spend and be spent for your souls; though the more abundantly I love you, the less I am loved." (2 Corinthians 12:15)

I would know this scripture, it would come to mind, and I would realize how I was not loving others more and more abundantly while they loved me less and less; so > I < was the one who needed correction, even if others had been wrong.

And now I have stayed in the same town, and have stayed with the same church for a while, and I have kept on associating with another church, in spite of things I took as slights and ways of rejecting me. And whenever I pray and get restored with the LORD and then go back to whoever . . . always the LORD's Spirit has things better in me and in the relating, I'd say.

And don't we wish we could find something interesting? Don't we have a "need" to do something a little risky, maybe exciting?
A *challenge*?

A real challenge is to stay in a relationship and find out how to love. Or, we can sit in front of a TV, drink a beer, or whatever, and wonder what we could be doing that would be interesting and challenging (o: Watch a football game . . . very challenging (o: Ones may wish for something interesting; yet, they read a newspaper, instead of getting to know their kids and find out how to nurture them and bring them up.

Jesus left Heaven, itself, to come here and deal with us (o: There are our little heavens that we don't need and that are just a convenience closet for gratifying ourselves and being empty; surely we don't need to be staying in these little heavens of our own making, instead of going out to love people.

So - - - to be trusted by God with ones who need us > all right . . . I've written this, now I will need to be ready to eat my own words (o: God bless you (o: Thanks for the prayer for us to succeed in this (o:

My dearest friends
I simply cannot find the appropriate vocabulary to express my gratitude toward you for taking the time and effort to be of help to some one who , in comparison , may be sounding as a babbling fool .(at least that's the way I feel at times) and it just may be that that is at the core of my so called "difficulties" , and believe it or not I am down right bewildered by all this .
But I do know one thing I was never cut out for this by my own effort , I'd never planned , prepared, studied , or whatever for all this ,and here's what's holding me in absolute awe is the very fact that comfy mentioned " got the study group and people coming to your *office* > oh my . . . you've even got an o-f-f-i-c-e." Yes I am dumbfounded by all this .

My dear friends does any of you understand that this terrifies the life out of me ? That how in fear of God I am lest I even sneeze the wrong way ? Or do anything else than what He asks me to do and at the same time time having absolutely no clue what to say ?

See , here's something that some people fail to understand , It is easy-er for for some people to be absolutely filled with joy and gratitude toward what God had done or given them , because they had always believed , worshipped and held Him in reverence most their lives , or at least a considerable amount of time , but as for me , I'd only been doing this (the "Christian" walk) for but a several months , I' just a babe in this , and haven't even tasted solid food yet (as Paul would say) and even worse little over ten rears ago I was a down-right self-proclaimed atheist wallowing in an alcoholic mire ! All I wanted was for the nightmare to stop and that was it !! But thanks Be to God that He had other plans , Who sent me another drunk to bring me to AA , which in turn re-introduced me to God in order for me to stay sober , Hence the nightmare stopped , through the Grace of God , and our 11th step suggests to improve our conscious contact with Him through prayer and meditation , praying only for the knowledge of His will for me and His Power (not mine) to carry it out , hence I establish a personal relationship with Him .
That's what I know , I dont know how to mend others' problems or situations I know how I mend mine !

And as far as what you guys are saying "be kind , soft , or candy coat your words " (my interpretation) . especially in response to comfy's " I'll hold this perception on the person and cancel that person out . . . instead of finding out different things about the person and getting to know him or her or something like this. I can cancel out a whole relationship, by holding someone to some one thing I perceive because of some one thing the person has done."

The twelfth principal of AA suggests that all our traditions (belief in God) be founded on Spirituality, ever reminding us to place Principles BEFORE personalities . So in a sense that eliminates the person when not grounded in Spirit , and the reason they're not grounded in Spirit is because their head is elsewhere than where it should be , I mean they ARE after all at the retreat for that very reason , they're here physically , but their minds "absent" ! I dont feel it is my job to "wake them up" they're here , my job is to give them a road map its up to them to do the walking . and guess what ? I only have one MAP !

I'm hoping and trusting you all that you wont take all this as an argument or disagreement with what all of you are saying , my only intent is to put my thoughts in front of you trusting your corrections and guidance lest I am wrong (I'm sure I am).

In Love of Christ Jesus my Lord

Vahn, something I want you to think about. We all need to "fear" God, but not in the sense of being afraid of Him, but more of being in awe of His power and His presence. God doesn't want you to be scared of Him. He's not the big bad wolf, remember He is a forgiving God, and if you do mess up, He's gonna forgive you. You are not the one who saves souls, your just the one who plants the seed. Jesus is the one who saves. So don't think that you can cause someone to loose their salvation, because if you have God's best interest at heart and are sharing, then He is going to offer them the choice to choose Him, not you.

I also want to say, ljd is right. Paul was the biggest example of a sinner who had made a mess of their life and others lives, before meeting Jesus. Was Paul worthy to be offering help to souls, after being a murderer, and a torturer? Well obviously God thought He was. Just like God thinks you are a great vessel for His work as well.

Let go and Let God.

luv ya

vahn wrote: And as far as what you guys are saying "be kind , soft , or candy coat your words " (my interpretation) . especially in response to comfy's " I'll hold this perception on the person and cancel that person out . . . instead of finding out different things about the person and getting to know him or her or something like this. I can cancel out a whole relationship, by holding someone to some one thing I perceive because of some one thing the person has done."

I'm not sure anyone is saying to "candy coat" what you say to people. But do be kind. I would say tell them what is right, and I suppose it would be good to make it so they can understand what you are saying, but of course they need how the Holy Spirit will have them doing it . . . discovering, actually, better understanding as the Holy Spirit takes care of them.

And one thing > we are not here just for God to make us feel better and fix our problems so we can live the lives we want to live. We are here first to please God. To seek him first, unconditionally, I would say, all the time, for how He takes us even at every moment. This takes *conscious contact* . . . all the time. And the conscious contact exposes me to how God is in love . . . showing me how I have *not* exactly been, but He wants to change me, cure me to be how He is in love. Trust Him to do this with us.

Now, that thing you quoted about me does not mean to candy coat what we say, in case you thought it meant that, Vahn. What I mean is I can see some one thing a person says or does, and form my whole judgment of the person on that one thing, and then keep a negative view of the person, cancelling the person out from my caring about and being interested in that person. I point this out, to show how I need to be much better to first love people, not to be so instant to just criticize some one thing and make that my permanent perception of the person. I have missed out on how I could be relating and loving with people, because I have been self-righteously critical like this.

I think that can be good, how you are concerned about what you do and say, having fear of God. If we are counseling and teaching people, we are very accountable for what we give. But how you fear needs to be right, too, like I believe mlg is saying (o: How we are is so very important to Him > "rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God." (1 Peter 3:4)

If you appreciate your need at all times for Him to keep you the right way, this can help you to feel for the ones you minister to > realizing they, too, so need for God to make sure they are and they live the way He really desires. Any do-it-yourselfing is not acceptable (o: So, you are right about this if this is what you mean, Vahn (o:

God bless you more (o:

I have only been walking 3 years, not my whole life. I believed in God, just in case there was one. Dutifully going to church every Easter and Christmas, sitting there yawning and wishing I was somewhere else. But I've got to say, when God caught me, he caught me good and I want to do more and more for him, not because of brownie points but because I want to.

That said, I could never councel the people you do because I have never gone through it. I could try to talk to them and tell them that Jesus is the way but you can reach them because you have been there and know how to talk to them so they will listen and reach for the truth. I believe that is why we go through the troubles we do. The more you reach and bless people, the more you are reached and blessed.
And also, remember that God's light (Holy Spirit) shines through you and people are attracted to it.