Christianity Oasis Forum

[saint701]

Hello Christianity Oasis, All!


Blessings!

Gal.2

[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

A Christian without a living experience of New Testament life is like a dictionary entry that exists without a definition. And I'm not talking about something vague in our memory that happened way back when, but an on going experience of Spiritual life that defines us; gives our lives as Christians meaning and purpose, and drives us to grow upward and outward continually through the working of our Lord in us. Normally that kind of walk with God doesn't happen over night. We must grow into it through our love for God, sufferings, patience, and perseverence. That is the challenge to us all, to continue in the faith, which brings us to our topic of this day.

Why did Paul persevere and endure so many hardships? He endured prisons, stonings, ship wrecks, and spiritual warfare at its worst. But why? That is the question. In the scripture above he gives us one magnificent reason, to live by the faith of the Son of God that loved Him and gave Himself for Paul. In Paul's proclamation he mentions something many us fail to count as important, the faith of the Son of God who loved us. Our Lord suffered on the Cross that He might pay the price for our eternal redemption, but He did so by faith, believing the Words of God given to Him by the Father, that God would raise Him up on the third day.

From the beginning of His ministry, can you just imagine how often he must have said to Himself, "If I can just endure, suffer, persevere until I be lifted up on that cross I will purchase eternal redemption for every human being that will come to God through me, and my Father will raise me from the dead." (Just a short note here...have you considered how Abraham was willing to sacrifice his only son, believing the Lord would raise him back up alive? Pretty awesome, huh? That was quite a test of Abraham's faith, but what Abraham did not have to do, God Almighty did. He sacrificed His only begotten Son." What a great faith our Lord Jesus had in God! And just think of it, if we persevere long enough that same faith Jesus had in the Father becomes ours. How magnificent God is, to give us His faith so we can say, though this body dies, God will raise me up with the same might and power He showed in raising our Lord from the dead. One day God will raise us from the dead! That is the faith of the Son of God!

Paul declared that it was the substance of our Lord's faith that gave Him life. He said it was the faith of our Lord that put the life of our flesh to death with Him on the cross in order that He might give us His life through that same faith that drove Him to fulfill His mission on our behalf. Paul tells us that the working of our Lord's cross in Him was so powerful His life through the faith of the Lord had become the life of Christ in him. Christ was his life within, and so powerful Paul no longer had any other life, but to be led, prompted, and directed by Christ within Him continually. There was nothing left of the outer man. It was gone, obliterated on the cross over time to the extent, to live for Him was Christ's life living in him, there was nothing left of his own life to live. His soul was entirely consumed by the life of God through the Spirit God had given him of Himself to the extent that his soul life was no longer his will, but the will of Christ's Spirit living within him. What a great life we have been given in Him!

Paul said much more in the verse above to us than appears to us on the surface. We must understand that in all cases where Paul made a statement to us quite beyond our experience and therefore also beyond our comprehension, that he was painting a picture for us, not that we should imitate him or our Lord as so many would have us to believe we should do, but use hope to stand up on the tips of our toes and stretch our necks outward as far as we can and take a look at what lies on down the road for us.

I see what lies the farthest on down the road of the life Christ now lives in me. I see myself glorified with the glory of the Lord Jesus Christ, as it is written, John 17:20-23:

John.17

[20] Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
[22] And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
[23] I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

In reality, am I glorified yet? Of course not! That's our greatest hope, glory. Is it my job somehow to imitate the glory of God? How rediculous and absurd it would be to think such of myself, but my Lord my God said He has given His glory to me, so I believe I have been glorified in Him, and say I have been glorified in Him with total confidence, because He said so. Faith calls things that are not as though they are. That's on down the road. But today I am considering what is going on within me by the working of the Spirit of God.

Am I now entirely consumed by the life of Christ within me to the degree Paul was? Not yet! But I know from April of 2009 until today Christ has been living out His life through me more and more. More and more He has replaced my will with His. I do walk in the Spirit each day, but the Lord still allows me to have a will in some things even if He won't allow me to pursue them at this time. He has made me to be in pursuit of those things He wills I put my hands to doing each day. He is in every part of what I do even if what I am doing is my own will, for it is my Lord's will to permit me to do it. (For example, the Lord allowed me to watch Mizzou beat kansas last night).

But much, MUCH more often I walk through each day seeing through the eyes of my Lord what to put my hands to doing. And such is a great life, Him in me and I in Him. From what I see to write to what I see to fix for dinner, He is in every part of what I put my hands to doing each day. His life is an amazing life, just amazing! Some days he shows me what meal to fix for those I serve, and as I am making preparations He will show me how to make the meal better or a short cut that saves me time. Many times when I open my eyes in the morning there will be a revelation that becomes a teaching on here, or I see a topic I am to write about, and while looking up scriptures He also gives me to see that go along with the post, I'll see more revelation in something I am reading. I am so happy because I know in all ways I am serving, from posts to washing clothes, He is showing His love to those I serve. So now this post isn't mine, it is Christ's for you! Where is boasting? Seeing it is our Lord at work within us, we boast of Him, His love for us, His grace for us, and the great things He desires so much to do through us! [b]GLORY TO YOU LORD! GLORY TO YOU LORD! GLORY TO YOU LORD! FOREVER AND FOREVER ALL GLORY BE TO YOU LORD![/b]

Heb.11

[1] Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

I like the story of Joshua and Caleb. Confronted with conquering a land filled with giants they were the only two that had faith they could do it. They got up on their toes, stretched out their necks and said, "We are well able to take it!" Their faith in God was the substance of their victory. Forty years later that which they had seen by faith and declared by faith came to pass. They entered into the land and took it! (The Book of Numbers Chapters 13 and 14).

You see, it is our job to have faith in God. That's our part, our job, our work, and how it is we grow to overcome. Such doesn't happen over night, but over many years. We may not be able to say that this day Christ lives in me and the life I now live, I live by the faith of Him, but we can use our hope to see it, use our patience to keep seeing it, our faith to say it and our heart to absolutely believe and expect our Lord to make our life His life in us by His grace when He wills, and when He has made us ready to handle that responsibility we will come to it.

Our Lord intends for us all to grow up to be completely mature in Him, not stay babies all of our lives, content with milk with no desire to grow to where we can eat meat. Would you like the great life of Christ in you? Then consider the following scripture.

Eph.4

[15] But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Blessings!

Love, In Christ Jesus, saint.

[saint701]

Hello All,


Blessings!

I feel very strongly about this post. It is important we realize our Lord went to the cross in faith on our behalf, and that faith has been passed on to us through His life in us. Such isn't a light thing, as without His faith working within us where would we be? We owe our Lord glory for His labor on the cross for us, and thankfulness. Of yourself, what are you? The 24 elders around the throne of the most high know of themselves they wouldn't be where they are, for it was of our Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Lord God Almighty Love Dad, that they sit where they sit. Therefore, laying themselves down before Him and casting their crowns to His glory tells us how we have become in Christ Jesus. Therefore, let us thank our Lord Jesus for our faith in Him!


Blessings!
Love, In Christ Jesus, saint.

[Buddee]

Taken from Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of NT Words

Of

Note: (1) In addition to the rendering of a number of prepositions, "of" translates the genitive case of nouns, with various shades of meaning. Of these the subjective and objective are mentioned here, which need careful distinction. Thus the phrase "the love of God," e.g., in 1 John 2:5 and 1 John 3:16, is subjective, signifying "God's love"; in 1 John 5:3, it is objective, signifying our love to God. Again, "the witness of God," e.g., 1 John 5:9, is subjective, signifying the witness which God Himself has given; in Revelation 1:2, Revelation 1:9, and Revelation 19:10, e.g., "the testimony of Jesus" is objective, signifying the testimony borne to Him. In the KJV "the faith of" is sometimes ambiguous; with reference to Christ it is objective, i.e., faith in Him, not His own faith, in the following passages in which the RV, "in" gives the correct meaning; Romans 3:22; Galatians 2:16 (twice), Galatians 2:20, RV, "I live in faith, the faith which is in the Son of God"; Galatians 3:22; Ephesians 3:12; Philippians 3:9 (cf. Colossians 2:12, "faith in the working of God"). In Ephesians 2:20, "the foundation of the apostles and prophets" is subjective, i.e., the foundation laid by the apostles and prophets ("other foundation can no man lay than... Jesus Christ," 1 Corinthians 3:11). (2) In the KJV of John 16:13, "He shall not speak of Himself," the preposition is apo, "from," as in the RV; the Spirit of God often speaks of Himself in Scripture, the Lord's assurance was that the Holy Spirit would not be the source of His utterances. So with regard to Christ's utterances, John 7:17, RV, "I speak from (apo) Myself": and John 14:10. (3) In John 6:46; John 15:15; John 17:7; Acts 17:9, the RV, "from" is to be observed, as rightly translating para (KJV, "of"). (4) The following are instances in which "of" translates ek, or ex, "out of, from," Matthew 21:25 (RV, "from"); 1 Corinthians 1:30; 1 Corinthians 15:6; 2 Corinthians 5:1 (RV, "from"); James 4:1. (5) In the following, peri, "concerning," is so translated in the RV (for KJV, "of"), e.g., Acts 5:24; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 1 John 1:1 (the RV is important); cf. John 16:8. (6) Epi, "over," is so translated in Matthew 18:13, RV; "concerning" in Acts4:9. (7) Huper, "on behalf of," is so rendered in 2 Corinthians7:4, RV (KJV, "of"); (8) For hupo, "by," see the RV of Matthew 1:22; Matthew 2:16; Matthew 11:27; Luke 9:7; Acts 15:4; 1 Corinthians 14:24; 2 Corinthians 8:19; Philippians 3:12.

[saint701]

Hello Buddee, All,


Blessings!

Gal.2 (KJV)

16. Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

17. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

18. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.

19. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

20. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

First of all, no one in their right mind would say that if we have faith in or believe in Jesus Christ for our salvation, such is incorrect, or it is only by the faith of the Son of God that we are saved. For God so loved the world He gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but receive everlasting life. Our faith in Christ is the basis for our our existence in Him. But there are two perspectives of faith, the one from our side where we await in faith believing in hope against hope as with faithful Abraham, which ultimately brings us to the other side, where we know longer live, but Christ lives in us.

Consequently I see more wisdom in the original KJV translation of Gal.2 than in the new. I understand why the original translators chose to attribute our salvation here in Gal.2 to our Lord's faith. Paul uses a line of reasoning from Abraham through Christ to us. Isaac was born because Abraham believed God. Therefore Isaac lived by the faith of Abraham. If Abraham would not have believed God, Isaac would not have been born.

The same holds true of Jesus our Lord and Savior. If Christ did not believe His Father would raise Him from the dead, He would not have gone to the cross on our behalf because of His unbelief. Consequently, without our Lord having faith in God, we would have no basis for our belief in Him and could not be saved by believing in Him. However, because our Lord did believe, and did go to the cross in faith, as Abraham, believing God, which brought forth Isaac, now we that have believed in Christ, live by the faith of Christ, as Isaac lived by the faith of Abraham.

So stated, now we have what I believe in essence was the mind of those translating the original KJV. Paul stated flatly that He was at the point in His walk with Christ, that even though he lived he no longer lived of himself, because Christ was living His life in Him.

That being said, if Christ was living in Paul and Paul had set himself aside so Christ could, then Paul was living by the faith "of" the Son of God, not His own faith, because it was Christ that was living in Him. Here is where experience and the examination of prepositions collide. I no longer live, but it is Christ that lives in me. If now Christ lives in me, how then is it any longer my faith that saves me? As Paul said, having been reconciled to God by the death of our Lord, (through our faith), much more we shall be saved by His life. Now, if it is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives in me, then it is by the faith of Christ I live, because I no longer live, and it is Christ that lives within me. Therefore, since it is now Christ that lives within me, then it is now also Christ's faith by which I live, and not only by His faith, but by His mind also.

Rom.5

[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

1Cor.2

[16] For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

If it is Christs life within us that animates us, and if it is Christ's mind that that directs, then it is also His faith that we live by.


Blessings!
Love, In Christ Jesus, Saint.

[Buddee]

So stated, now we have what I believe in essence was the mind of those translating the original KJV.

"I live by the faith of the Son of God; meaning, not that faith which Christ, as man, had, but that of which he is the author and object, by which the just man lives; not upon it, for the believer does not live upon any of his graces, no, not upon faith, but by faith on Christ, the object; looking to him for pardon, righteousness, peace, joy, comfort, every supply of grace, and eternal salvation: which object is described as "the Son of God"; who is truly God, equal with his Father; so that he did not live upon a creature, or forsake the fountain of living waters, but upon the only begotten Son of God, who is full of grace and truth..."


"But this life I have by the faith of the Son of God - by believing on Christ as a sacrifice for sin; for he loved me, and because he did so he gave himself for me - made himself a sacrifice unto death, that I might be saved from the bitter pains of death eternal."


"I live by the faith of the Son of God - By confidence in the Son of God, looking to him for strength, and trusting in his promises, and in his grace. Who loved me, etc. He felt under the highest obligation to him from the fact that he had loved him, and given himself to the death of the cross in his behalf. The conviction of obligation on this account Paul often expresses; see the Rom_6:8-11; 8:35-39 notes; 2Co_5:15 note. There is no higher sense of obligation than that which is felt toward the Saviour; and Paul felt himself bound, as we should, to live entirely to him who had redeemed him by his blood."


The same word usage is also found in Galatians 2:16..." Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

It's not a matter of the translators getting it right. They did. It's a matter of correctly understanding what the translators are saying....and the proper usage of the word(s) in question.

Peace.

[saint701]

Hello Buddee, All,


Blessings!

I respect your opinion and the translators of modern versions of the Great Book, but...I live, yet not I, for it is Christ that lives in me. Much of what I have written here in the Book of Romans has to do with explaining the experience of Christ living within me. Rom.5:[10] For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

If Christ did not live in me I would have no hope of perfection. I would, as so many do, look outside of myself with my faith Godward in hope of of obtaining the graces you mentioned. Perfection would be the farthest thing from my mind. However, Christ has given me of His Spirit, and through His Spirit I have His life in me. The Spirit of Christ in me directs my daily activities, moving me ever forward into the perfection of the love of God that is already working in me.

I guess most don't meet God face to face to know Him as He is, but I did. Paul said we should meet that which is perfect and that which was in part would pass away in favor of that which is perfect. Our Heavenly Dad Lord of Lords King of Kings Lord God Almighty Love Dad paid me a visit while I was sitting out under the stars during a time of prayer and fasting from the middle of March to the middle of April 2009.

In that meeting my loving God King Dad immersed me in His life. God is love we are told...but such doesn't adequately convey the fact He is the origin and very essence of love. To be in His presence is to be in the presence of perfect love. He left me with two wonderul gifts that night. The first and greatest gift was the implanting of His essence within my heart, and the second gift was the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation in the Knowledge of Him. I do live by the life of God in me. Christ within is our hope of glory, not Christ without. It is no longer I that live, but Christ that lives within me.

Now if it is Christ that is living within me....and He really is...and I really know it, and I have access to His mind, and do, and really know it because He continually imparts what is on His mind to me with all wisdom and understanding. Therefore, the life that I live, I no longer live, but it is Christ that lives within me. Therefore I do live by the faith of the Son of God, but not only by His faith, His hope, His mind, His power, and His fruitfulness, but by the essence of His eternal life which is love that He lives witin me. The Kingdom of Heaven is within, not without.

I do look to Christ for His graces, but they come to me from He that lives in me. My experience of Christ living within in me, and it no longer being I that live, but Christ living His life through me is a living testimony that the original translators interpreted the passage correctly according to context. The modern translators got it wrong.

"I live by the faith of the Son of God; meaning, not that faith which Christ, as man, had, but that of which he is the author and object, by which the just man lives; not upon it, for the believer does not live upon any of his graces, no, not upon faith, but by faith on Christ, the object; looking to him for pardon, righteousness, peace, joy, comfort, every supply of grace, and eternal salvation: which object is described as "the Son of God"; who is truly God, equal with his Father; so that he did not live upon a creature, or forsake the fountain of living waters, but upon the only begotten Son of God, who is full of grace and truth..."

It's not a matter of the translators getting it right. They did. It's a matter of correctly understanding what the translators are saying....and the proper usage of the word(s) in question.

Gal.2

[20] I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Here is where experience and the examination of prepositions collide. I no longer live, but it is Christ that lives in me.


Blessings!
Love, In Christ Jesus, saint.