Alcoholism/Church , vise-versa

[vahn]

I dont know if this is the proper forum to post this or not , but , how else am I going to find out huh?

I'm almost apologetic about the fact that I am not a member of a specific , physical church , (except Oasis) neither am I proud of not attending church on a regular basis , but I do fellowship with a lot of Christians , and do my worshiping and praying in my "secret" place so to speak .

That is not the issue . The issue I'm having I've been trying to "sell" the brass here the idea of starting/having AA meetings here at the retreat and been getting some "head-scratching" in response , and I have to make my final presentation coming Tue. at community meeting , brass and staff included . I need to know what is the church's stance on alcoholics .

This past Tue. I had to cover for a fellow staff facilitating his group sessions , and one question kept coming at me repeatedly is why I continue to relate to addiction as a sin , and that what does God have to do with alcoholism . Dont get me wrong , it was not in protestation , but rather in inquisitive manner . So today brass, having heard of the outcome of the sessions, was "nosing" around with same type of questions , starting with first you gain access to the van to take them to AA , now you're including alchoholism in group yada yada but they , inadvertently walked themselves right into the answer by asking "how does relapse from abstinence become a sin ? (I thought that question was God sent) my answer was , "after trying every imaginable remedy for my alcoholism , God was the last thing I tryed and the first thing that worked , I stay sober by the Grace of God and recover from alcoholism by practicing the twelve steps of AA which are derived , in combination from the book of James and 1 Corinthians, in other words they are , not only Biblical principals but directly from the new testament , so now , answering your relapse/sin question , if I was to chose to pick up I'm in turn choosing to turn away from God , now if you dont see turning away from God as a sin , maybe you should attend AA meetings yourself ."

As an active alcoholic the reason I shyed away from AA was because of the fact that they relyed on God , and I was too sinful .

what does the church think of that I heard a lot of neg. feelings , but not rational explanations yet , can you guys help me with that ?

One body , many members . some were given the gift of speech , and some to preach , so to speak , maybe mine is to take it to the drunks !

[mlg]

And maybe it just is my friend. So here's the thing...you have to give them something to think about. Alcoholism takes a person's focus from God and to only feeding their habit. This is the danger of any addiction, as the addiction is controlling their lives and not God. This is why it is so important to have an outreach for an alcoholism, drugs etc. If this outreach isn't willing to have the plan there, then keep taking these souls off campust to the meetings. But either way God's will be done.

luv ya

[vahn]

Thanks for the responses I am in absolute agreement with both MLG and LJD . As I mentioned before I haven't that many contacts with church members , and the ones I do have , most are recovering members of both church and AA , so basically, when the discussion presents itself we usually are in agreement on the subject , as to a lot of AA's are not comfortable when it comes to church and religion ( I myself was one of those) and also to the few churches that I attended and/or attempted to join had the same feelings toward AA , however their rational (the ones I heard) is (and today I somewhat agree ) that once one achieves sobriety through the Grace of God why would anyone want to go to AA ? That statement , by the way, was brought up today at group here at the retreat .
It is a legitimate point , for nonalcoholics to make , but from AA's point of view , it spells only an alcoholic can understand an alcoholic , with which I also agree , and even though God is unchanging no matter what one calls Him , as long as they call Him, It was hence that I was led to God and "church" myself .
One of the brass (nonalkie) said something , that goes along with what LJD pointed out ,was, why do you want to incourage people out of their churches into AA ? Of course my response is predictable , I told him that was not the case , but rather the point I made earlier whereas one alkie helping the other , dealing with day to life without alcohol one day at a time , and alcoholics like me we dont even know where to start to recognise and solve the problems we came in with , and that there is no way a nonalcoholic would be able to help recognize any issue an alkie may have , let alone offer a solution other than pray to God and just dont drink , let me tell you , if I could "just dont drink" why would I need any help to begin with ?
I'm running out of time at this computer (I'm at library) , once again , thank you very much for the replies , it comfirms my stance , then again , "the night's still young" so to speak , I look forward to get more , by Monday , to be ready for my Tuesday's presentation .
God Bless !

[mlg]

Well and in all actuality you aren't wanting to remove anyone from their church presence, you are just wanting to enhance the church experience with adding more programs...such as AA. Keep listening to God, vahn and if this is His will, He will make the way for the program. If the program doesn't work out then you know God wasn't ready for it there. Either way His will be done.

luv ya

[vahn]

I just simply looove oasis !

The only place I come to to discuss an issue without having to "go" into an argument , 'though opinions may differ from one another but the path and direction is the same . "Whenever 2 or 3 people are on the same path or road going the same direction , they must first be in agreement with the same destination" (just a fancy way of saying "I will be amongst them" ) .
Reading the much appreciated responses , brought up something else in mind that somehow got tucked away somewhere , 'till now that is , was , something I should've uttered (and probably will) is something by William James in his book "Varieties of religious experiences" , at the appendixes in the big book (AA text book) titled Spiritual Experiences , where James quotes Herbert Spencer saying "There is a principal , that is a bar (wall?) against all information (new or old) [[brackets are mine]] and never fails to hold man in complete ignorance , and that principal is contempt prior to investigation ".
Along those lines is the reason why I kept scratching my head as to why is that these people are so reluctant to include another spiritual based program on their agenda , especially when the whole purpose of the retreat is to provide a safe haven to those who find themselves caught-up in their worldly struggles that is drawing them farther away from Christian/Spiritual way of life , hence coming here to "regroup" or "a recharge" so to speak , and when someone comes up with an idea to better enhance the purpose, they shut their minds as tight as a clam !

In AA lingo , whenever I get a chance to quote H. Spencer I refer to that "principal" as "I Know" and whenever I say or rather used to say "I know" to my sponsor , he usually handed me a 20 and say "Yep , you're all done here vahn , go have one for me too " . Asking him what that was about , he opened the book and have me read Spencer's quote in front of everybody and asked to explain what that meant to me . Well, once I say I got it , now I know everything , I dont need anything else , I'm all set , I'm shutting my mind off from any new Ideas .
Kinda reminds me of the time I got here and I was encouraged by both Lizzie and MLG to take the 14 day counseling , and everytime I would say yep, "I got it" Mlg would go "Theere's mooore ! " and I'd go "hmph , if I could just ...." but nevertheless by going through it all I realized how much I would've missed should I had just stopped there !

It had all been in God's plan from the word go , I'm only trying to do the same , based on my experience here !

[mlg]

Yep, sometimes it takes a little bit of coaching, to get it all, but we eventually grasp it huh?

luv ya vahn